Carlos Corella
Title
Carlos Corella
Description
Biographical Synopsis of Interviewee: Carlos Corella was born on October 2, 1933, in Clint, Texas, where he grew up; he graduated from high school and was drafted into the Army; he served from 1953 to 1955; after being discharged, he went to work for the United States Department of Labor, at Rio Vista, a processing center for braceros in Socorro, Texas.
Summary of Interview: Mr. Corella briefly recalls his time in the Army and the various places he traveled; upon being discharged in 1955, he went to work for the United States Department of Labor, at Rio Vista, a processing center for braceros in Socorro, Texas; while there, he was put in charge of escorting the braceros through immigration on both sides of the border; he remembers a particular form for the braceros called a 414, which they needed to have when going through immigration; it included their name, address, height, weight, and a brief physical description; the U.S. Department of Labor, U.S. Immigration, and U.S. Public Health were the three governmental agencies present at the reception center; he describes their first order of business, which was to disinfect or delouse the braceros, and he goes on to explain what each agency was responsible for; later, he became part of the on-site crew at the reception center; he worked for a total of three years at Rio Vista; to the best of his knowledge, the Bracero Program began sometime in 1949 or 1950 and one of the original reception centers was at the El Paso County Coliseum; it was not until two or three years later that the reception/processing center was moved to Rio Vista.
Summary of Interview: Mr. Corella briefly recalls his time in the Army and the various places he traveled; upon being discharged in 1955, he went to work for the United States Department of Labor, at Rio Vista, a processing center for braceros in Socorro, Texas; while there, he was put in charge of escorting the braceros through immigration on both sides of the border; he remembers a particular form for the braceros called a 414, which they needed to have when going through immigration; it included their name, address, height, weight, and a brief physical description; the U.S. Department of Labor, U.S. Immigration, and U.S. Public Health were the three governmental agencies present at the reception center; he describes their first order of business, which was to disinfect or delouse the braceros, and he goes on to explain what each agency was responsible for; later, he became part of the on-site crew at the reception center; he worked for a total of three years at Rio Vista; to the best of his knowledge, the Bracero Program began sometime in 1949 or 1950 and one of the original reception centers was at the El Paso County Coliseum; it was not until two or three years later that the reception/processing center was moved to Rio Vista.
Creator
Craver, Rebecca
Corella, Carlos
Date
2003-02-05
Subject
Department of Labor
Rights
Institute of Oral History, The University of Texas at El Paso
Language
eng
title (Spanish)
Carlos Corella
creator (Spanish)
Corella, Carlos
Rights Holder
Institute of Oral History, The University of Texas at El Paso
Online Submission
No
Original Format
Digital, WAV, MP3
Duration
1:00:59
Transcription
Name of Interviewee: Carlos Corella
Date of Interview: February 5, 2003
Name of Interviewer: Rebecca Craver
Today is February 5, 2003, and this is an interview with Carlos Corella, and I am Rebecca Craver, and this interview will be part of the Bracero Project.
RC: Okay, let’s just start kind of with some biographical information, that’s usually the way we start. So, tell me where you were born and when.
CC: I was born and raised in Clint; it’s a little town about six miles east of El Paso. I was born on October 2, 1933, which means that I’m going to be seventy here, in three or four months. I graduated from Clint High School. Shortly after my graduation, I was drafted for the Korean War. The Korean War ended two weeks before I finished my infantry training, so we were scattered all over. Fortunately, I was sent to Europe. I spent eighteen months in Germany, and I traveled all over Germany, France, Italy, Spain, Austria, and Switzerland. After my discharge, I went to work for the U.S. Department of Labor, at the bracero reception center, also known as Rio Vista.
RC: Okay, so let’s get some of these dates, years, down for me. When did you start service in the Army? Was it ’50?
CC: From June of ’53 to April of ’55.
RC: Okay. And how did you hear about this job at the Department of Labor? Why did you go to work for them?
CC: I don’t really remember. The only thing I can remember is that there were a lot of young men and women working there. I was a mechanic in the Army, and I didn’t want to do anymore mechanic work, so I decided to try Rio Vista, even though I was making probably a third of the money that I would have been making as a mechanic working at Fort Bliss. (interviewer laughs) And that’s how I got started. I started there probably in June of 1955, April or June of 1955, April or May of 1955. Shortly thereafter, I was placed in charge of the importation of the braceros. I had two helpers under me, in addition to two other nongovernmental employees that worked for a contractor that were responsible for feeding the braceros. You want me to follow the progression?
RC: Yeah, but let me back up a little bit. What qualified you for the job?
CC: There were no specific qualifications. It was not considered a job that required a lot of education or talent, I suppose. The grades were very low, I started as a GS3, if you can imagine, and I think the lowest grade way back then in government services was GS2. Fortunately, I had just gotten out of the service, and I was husky and aggressive, disciplined, and I suppose my supervisors noticed that, and they placed me in charge of the importation of braceros. So, there were no special requirements.
RC: And what particular instructions did you have?
CC: Absolutely none. (interviewer laughs) My supervisor just said, “Look Carlos, I’m gonna
take you over there, and you can watch me, what it is that I’m doing, me and these other
two young men.” My supervisor at the time was Teodoro Alejandro, who was the chief of transportation, and he was only a GS7. I say only because I retired as a [GS]13, so you know, to me a [GS]5 was a huge number. But anyway, looking at it retrospectively, he was only a GS5, GS7, and I went over there. We went to the train station in Juárez, and we talked to some Mexican personnel at the train station, and we picked up the list of the braceros, from there, we marched them to downtown Juárez, through the Mexican officials at the Santa Fe Bridge.
RC: And how many would be in this group?
CC: Anywhere from eight hundred to sixteen hundred, at a time, so getting them from the train station, through the city, and to the bridge was a big problem.
RC: Describe what it looked like.
CC: Well, fortunately, I was in excellent shape. The train station is about a mile and a half, two miles from the bridge, so I would run that trek three or four times so as to keep order and make sure that the Mexican police in Juárez would assist me in stopping the traffic to let two or three hundred braceros cross the streets, and then they’d open the street back to traffic, and then they’d close it back out, let another two or three hundred braceros cross that particular street, we’re talking about ten, fifteen streets that braceros had to cross, so needless to say, Mexican city police were very occupied (interviewer laughs) in helping me. I’m very, very appreciative that they did that, I don’t think that they did that to assist me, but they did that to assist their own people, because they knew that if someone did not control the traffic, some of the braceros would get hurt, nonetheless, I’m very appreciative that they were helping at the bridge. I would very, very cursorily process them through Mexican immigration, hand them the manifest, which was the list of the braceros, their names and addresses, and I would help Mexican immigration identify them, I said, “Well, these are my people,” you know, “these are the braceros.”
RC: At this point they had no ID on them?
CC: They had a piece of paper, which we called Form 14, which showed their name, the address, and other information, height, weight, a very brief physical description, that’s about all I remember that was on that sheet of paper, which was about four and a half inches by about seven inches. I would process them through Mexican workers, and then I’d do the same thing, very cursorily, through American immigration. The Mexican and American officials knew me, so they assumed that everybody that was in line crossing the bridge under the guise of a bracero was a bracero. I don’t recall that they ever questioned any individual or me for that matter, “Are you sure that all these people are braceros?” They just had to assume, because otherwise it would have taken us two days to process these people. After the processing went through American immigration, then they were on the U.S. side of the border, and below there is a huge levee where I would congregate ‘em, and I would feed ‘em individually a sack lunch, which consisted of an apple and two gringo bologna sandwiches in a brown paper bag. They would look at it, some of them were surprised, they didn’t know what it was. Some of ‘em that had come before knew that they were bologna sandwiches, and they ate ‘em anyway, they were hungry. The trip, incidentally, going back from Chihuahua to Juárez was a horrendous trip for ‘em. It was by rail, and they were brought over from Chihuahua in cattle cars. I don’t know how many stops they made, but it was about a seven-hour trip. If you can imagine, packed in rail cars, and as I said before, I don’t know whether they made any stops to allow them to relieve themselves. That part of the story I don’t know. I’m sure that the braceros would be able to fill in that portion of it. So, to get back to where we were on the U.S. side of the border, then I would feed ‘em, and they would eat anything, poor devils. Then I would order the buses, I would call the bracero reception center, “I’m ready for the buses,” and the buses were yellow buses that were owned by Orville Story. He was a private contractor with the government. He had about fifty buses, and we would load ‘em onto the buses. The buses would carry them to the bracero reception center, also known as Rio Vista. Until the last bracero left, then I would get on the last bus, and go up to the bracero reception center. Incidentally, most of the braceros would arrive about nine or ten or eleven o’clock in the morning, which means that they were traveling at night, although on occasion, they would come in at three or four or five o’clock in the afternoon, which tells me that they left Chihuahua in the morning. Even the Mexican Nationals that lived around Juárez that wanted to become braceros would have to make the trip to Chihuahua where they were processed by the Mexican government and then sent back to Juárez. So we would process ‘em. They were fed by another private contractor for the U.S. Department of Labor, and way back then, it was Amen Wardy. He was the person in charge of, well the person that fed ‘em, not only there at the levee, but also at the bracero reception center. At the bracero reception center there were hot lunches, and they would consist of several items, some consisted of beans, naturally the Mexican staple, and mashed potatoes, and sometimes ham, and sometimes bologna sandwiches, and sometimes fried pieces of meat. It would vary.
RC: How long would the bracero stay at Rio Vista before he was transported out to a job?
CC: It would depend. The bracero reception center was always crowded with what we called contractors. Some of the contractors were private contractors that had been hired by farmers. Some of the farmers were local farmers, and some of ‘em were from Dell City and Pecos, and even from out of El Paso, even from out of state. After they would be processed, the first order of business for the braceros when they got to the bracero reception center was that they had to be disinfected, so they would go through U.S. Public Health, one of the governmental agencies there. There were three governmental agencies at the bracero reception center, which were U.S. Public Health, U.S. Department of Labor, for whom I worked, and U.S. Immigration, which also processed them. So, first order of business was to disinfect them. They would go through, they were formed in about four or five lines, they were placed through a Quonset hut, and they were asked to strip, and they were sprayed with a white powder all over their body, including their hair, facial hair, the hair on their head, and even around the low area. Some of the braceros that experienced that for the first time were embarrassed, and some thought it was kind of cute, it was a laughing matter. When they would come out of the Quonset hut, they would look at each other, and they were all white, and they’d say, “Well, I guess we’re gringos now.” (both laugh) Humor was always part of the way that they tolerated the adventure. After they were processed through public health, then we feed them, after we would feed them, then we would send them to a selection line. We called it a selection line, and there the contractors or farmers, whichever would happen to be the case, would speak to them, and based on a very, very short interview, three, four questions: “Do you know how to pick cotton? Do you know how to pick cantaloupe? Do you know how to pick corn? Do know how to pick strawberries? Do you know how to pick watermelons? Do you know how to pick cantaloupe?” Depending on their response, they would choose the braceros. They would select them, and they were considered then the property of that contractor or that farmer. They were placed aside and processed individually under that contractor, under that farmer, and eventually transported to their final destination, either the farm of the individual farmer or wherever the contractor would choose to send them, because the contractors would contract for several farmers. Some of the braceros would leave that afternoon, but most of them would not. I would say about 20 percent would leave that afternoon, which means that 80 percent would have to be housed there. We had four or five barracks, the army type, [with] cots. We would issue blankets at night, whether they needed them or not, if they didn’t need them, they could use them as pillows. The next morning, we would feed them breakfast, and the contractors would be there at seven o’clock in the morning at the selection line to contract more. Well, I need to back up. After they were processed through public health, then they were sent through contracting, no, they were selected and then they were sent through contracting. Contracting wrote up all the contracts, and the contract was very, very extensive. I don’t know whether anybody ever read it, I never read one. They consisted of about three or four pages of small print and in English, mind you. I don’t know that even the contractors read them; I don’t know that even the farmers read them, but it was all legalese. Then they were processed. There were about twenty young pretty ladies, just out of high school, that would type all the documents, insert the names on documents that had already been prepared, and they would then type the name and address of the individual bracero onto the document. A U.S. government official would sign it, the braceros would sign it (coughs) and then they were processed through U.S. Immigration. (coughs) After they were processed through U.S. Immigration, then they were clear to be contracted, and that’s when they were moved to the selection line. Once they were selected, then they would go through the transportation department of the Department of Labor, which is the department for whom I worked, and there at the bracero reception center, they were loaded onto buses or trucks, some of them were cattle trucks, some of them were sixteen-wheelers, eighteen-wheelers, buses, pick-ups. A farmer would come in, and he’d want four or five; he’d take them in the back of his pickup. Some farmer would bring his own bus, he wanted fifty or sixty, and then we wouldn’t see them until four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten months later. But getting back to the 80 percent that remained at the bracero reception center, the next morning, another 20 or 30 percent would leave, they were selected and contracted and processed. Normally, within three and a half days all one thousand or sixteen hundred braceros would be gone, which means that by that time another load of braceros would be coming in [the others would be gone], which was my job to go pick ‘em up and send ‘em to the bracero reception center.
RC: Did you ever have trouble, like, doubling up where there would be sixteen hundred at Rio Vista and then here came another shipment?
CC: No, no, the timing was practically perfect. The flow of braceros was controlled at Chihuahua, and when my supervisor, the senior manager, Mr. Rhodes, would see that the bracero reception center could accommodate X number of braceros, he would call Chihuahua and say, “Well okay, we’re practically vacant now so you can send another load.” That’s how the population at the bracero reception center was controlled.
RC: I see, okay. Now when you talked about feeding them, was there a mess hall at Rio Vista?
CC: There was a humongous mess hall that would seat about two hundred at a time. Of course, the braceros got used to the idea of the Army, that you hurry up and wait and stand in line, you stand in line to be fed, you stand in line to be contracted, you stand in line to be processed through immigration, you stand in line to be processed through public health, you stand in line to get blankets, you stand in line to do this and that and the other. That’s where some of the problem would arise for some of the employees, because some of the braceros were not used to discipline. Some of them were so humble, coming from remote villages, that they really didn’t know what an order was. They thought it was easy enough if they would see a friend or a relative at the head of the line, that it was easy enough for him to run, he or three or four of them from the same little town, to run and get in line with his friends. It was up to us to let them know that they had to form the line at the rear. That was the main problem that we had, keeping order, keeping people from bucking the line, as we used call it in the service, forming the line at the end of the line, but other than that, I don’t recall having any major problems. There were a few that were experienced, that had come over as braceros five, six, seven, perhaps even eight or ten times before, so they were not as shy, and they were more daring, and they would try things that the other braceros would not try to do, of course, buck the line, and this and that and the other, cheat as to where they wanted to go. I don’t blame them. Some of them, many of them, had a choice where to go depending on their experience; a lot of them did not. They would try to go to a place where all of their friends and or relatives would be sent to, which is understandable. Sometimes the little groups had to be broken up. I’m gonna get a little ahead of myself, because this remark needs to be made here. After I was no longer in charge of the importation of braceros, I was part of the crew at the bracero reception center. I would overhear some of the braceros wanting to make some kind of a ___(?), some kind of a plan so that they would go to the same farm, and I would tell them, “Well, the best way to do that is when the contractor asks you, ‘Do you know how to pick cotton?’ Tell him, ‘yes,’ even if you’ve never picked it before, you can learn how to pick cotton in fifteen minutes. So, if all of you say yes to just about everything the contractor is asking you, it’s very likely that all of us will go to the same farm. If two or three of you have experience picking cotton and then four or five of you don’t, well you know they’re not going to send you to the same place, because the contractor wants people with experience, because they’re the braceros that pick cotton the quickest and the fastest and who become the most profitable. So, just tell them, no matter what kind of a job you’re gonna do, whether it’s melon picking, watermelon, cherries, strawberries, cotton, corn, whatever, just tell them yeah, you can learn it in five minutes.” I felt kinda obligated to keep some of these humble people together (coughs) although I suppose that I felt kinda guilty, because I used to mistreat them in order to keep order. Even though I was a U.S. government official, I had no time for courtesies. I would look into their bewildered faces and bark orders at them, “Go over there. Run over here. Stand over there,” and they’d wanna ask me questions, “I don’t have time for you, just get in line,” and this and that and the other. I was young and aggressive, and sometimes when they would buck the line, I’d just grab them by the shoulders and just kick them out of the line, throw them out. It seemed that some of the braceros would see that we were so harsh with them that they would make fewer attempts to do the things that they were not supposed to do, and since we didn’t carry weapons, the only thing that we had to keep order was our harsh manner of speaking and hollering at them.
RC: Oh gee. Did you have a bullhorn or—
CC: Yes, we had bullhorns, and the bracero reception center had a PA system. When we wanted to give orders to the general populous at the center, then of course that was done through the PA system. When we wanted to localize the order to a certain corner of the center, we would use bullhorns. I must also say that at the bracero reception center there was another federal office, and there was the Mexican Consulate. A Mexican consul with two assistants was at the center to, I suppose, keep us from being excessively abusive. When they were coming back after they had completed the contract or when the job had been finished, whichever would come first, they would come back to the bracero reception center, and they would go back home. The Mexican consul would invariably get together with them, every single load, and ask them if they had any complaints, if they had been mistreated, if they had been abused, if they had been exploited, if they had been paid properly. He would prod ‘em, because most of them would not want to complain, understandably, because they anticipated coming back next year, and they got used to the idea that certain exploitation, certain abuse was expected, it was part of being a bracero, so they tolerated it. There were some braceros that were promised X number of dollars, and they were not paid the correct amount. Some of the farmers would have their commissaries, stores on site at the farm, to provide whatever the bracero needed, so that they wouldn’t have to go to town, so that they could work them sometimes seven days a week. The braceros would tell me, and sometimes the Mexican consul, that the prices that they would have to pay at the commissary, at the store at the farm, was inflated 30, 40, 50 percent, sometimes 100 percent, and they would discern that when they would go to town on a weekend, and they would check the prices in the grocery stores in town. (interviewer laughs) They’d say, “Wow, we’re paying too much for our food,” and sometimes they would go back and tell the farmer, “You’ve been charging us too much,” those that had a little more nerve. Some of the farmers would bring down the price. The idea was the farmers to accommodate the braceros, and the braceros to accommodate the farmer in the work. Nonetheless, the farmer had the knife and the cheese, and he would slice it anyway he pleased, so the braceros, was many times victimized. Getting back to my friend who was a Mexican consul, he and I became friends when I was assigned to the bracero reception center and no longer in charge of the importation of the braceros. He saw that I was so harsh with the braceros in my barking orders at them and the way I would handle them, that he gave me the title of Sargento Mal Pagado, which translated literally means the poorly paid sergeant, but what it really connotes, idiomatically, is a sergeant with a bad attitude, because he’s so poorly paid. Sometimes, I would be going by when he was querying them, after their return from the farms, and he would point at me, and he would ask them, in Spanish of course, “¿Cómo los trato el Sargento Mal Pagado?”. “How were you treated by this badass sergeant?” They would look at me and grin, and they didn’t know what to say, and then of course I’d just keep walking, and they were free to speak their mind. I’m sure that there were a lot of complaints that were made to my supervisor about me and about other employees. They were legitimate, but there was no other way to keep order, and finally my supervisors knew that, and finally, I have to assume, the Mexican consul and his assistants discerned the same thing. There’s just no other way but to be very, very harsh with these people, and everything was permissible, other than hitting them, but jerking them out of lines and pushing them, all that was permissible. It was overlooked. I don’t know whether that would be true today, but that way back then, it was permissible.
RC: Did everybody at Rio Vista speak Spanish?
CC: Yes, well, um—
RC: Most of them?
CC: Well, I said yes immediately, because every single employee was bilingual. The only non-bilingual personnel was the center manager, Mr. Rhodes, the assistant to the manager, Mr. Rucker, the chief of reception, Mr. Schaeffer, and the chief of contracting, Mr. McDonald, but their assistants were all Mexican American, all bilingual.
RC: Okay, for the record, could you give me those people’s first names along with their title?
CC: Well, Mr. Rhodes, no, I don’t remember his first name. Mr. Rucker, H.L. Rucker, I don’t remember his first name, was the center assistant. Mr. Schaeffer, chief of reception, I don’t remember his first name, all of us knew him as Mr. Schaeffer, chief of contracting, McDonald, everybody called him. You have to realize that the managers at the bracero reception center were not only older than us, but they were college graduates. Some of them had been officers in the Army. I think McDonald had been a captain in the Army during the Second World War, and Mr. Rucker had been an officer in the Navy. Since they dealt with their assistants who were bilingual, they were not required to be bilingual, because they did not have to deal with the braceros, and that’s why everybody under the managers were required definitely to be bilingual. If you were not bilingual, you could not work there.
RC: Okay. That’s good to know. Do any particular incidents stand out in your mind where there was unrest or the braceros disobeyed or caused trouble?
CC: There were several instances. Let me go back when I was in charge of the importation of the braceros. Invariably, every single time that I received a load from Chihuahua, there were some people who were trying to buck the line. I got used to that, and invariably, I would have to go to where they would run on to the line, and grab them by the shoulders and pull them out, and stand right in front of their face and yell at them and tell them, “Go back to the end of the line or I’m going to send you back to Mexico, so take your choice.” They knew that I had that authority. We were given the authority that if we found people that would not accept the discipline, that would not take orders, that we could pick up their Form 14, which was their identification. Without that form they couldn’t be processed, and we would isolate them on the manifest, on the list of the braceros, and send them back. I don’t remember ever having to do that more than once or twice, because in spite of the fact that I was very harsh, I was not a cruel man. I knew that they needed the jobs. The only reason for my harshness was that that was the only tool that I had to keep discipline. I remember very distinctly, one time that I was close to the front of the line, and there were three black men coming up to pick up lunch, they were getting up close to the lunch area. (coughs) I went to talk to them, and I asked them, “Are you guys that hungry that you are willing to eat one of these lunches?” They looked at me and did not respond, and I asked them again, “Are you guys after a free lunch?” Then finally, one of them looked at the other one, and he said, “¿Qué dice?” Then I asked them, “Are you braceros, then? You don’t speak English, no?” They told me in Spanish, “No, we don’t speak English. We’re braceros,” and they were black men, black men with all the features. So, needless to say, I was very curious, and I asked them where they were from. They told me that they were from ___(?) which is a port in the Gulf of Mexico, the name escapes me, it’ll come back to me, which is where the Portuguese would drop off a lot of black slaves, and also some of the Spaniards. Way back then, in the mid-1800s, some of the black slaves remained in that area, and some of them intermarried with the indigenous people, and they became Mexican citizens, and on that occasion those three black men became braceros. (interviewer laughs) I was in charge of the importation of braceros for three years, and then I got a letter from the Army telling me that I had six months to enroll in a university or I would lose my GI bill of rights. All this time, for two and a half years, almost three years, I had plans to go to college, I wanted to go to college, get a degree, and get a super job, and I had kept postponing it. I ended up getting married. I was married, and I had two kids when I received the letter from the VA. Immediately I called UTEP, it was Texas Western College at the time, I asked them when I could enroll, and they told me, “You can enroll in February, which is about three months away,” and I said, “I’ll be there.” I asked (coughs) my immediate supervisor if I could transfer to the night crew, because I wanted to go to college during the day, and he wouldn’t allow me. He said, “No, I need you. I need you over there. You’re doing a super job, and I need you over there.” Finally, after proddin’ him about two weeks, and he would not relent, I spoke to his supervisor, and I informed him, who was the assistant center manager, who was a college graduate. My supervisor was not a college graduate; he was Mexican American. Then I spoke to the assistant center manager, and I told him exactly what I wanted to do, that I wanted to transfer to the night crew, because I wanted to go to college and get a degree. He had a degree, and he could understand. He said, “Carlos, don’t worry about it. I’ll talk to your supervisor. Just tell me when it is, when you want to start.” And that’s how I was transferred to the night crew, which means that I worked from 3:30 in the afternoon to midnight. There was another guard that would relieve me at midnight, who worked from midnight to six in the morning. My job then was to feed them, keep order in the chow line, and make sure that each one of them were fed properly. Sometimes the contractor would fudge on the lunches. It got to the point where we were weighing every single plate to make sure that they got the ounces that the government was paying for.
RC: And these people that made the food for ‘em, did they set up kitchens at Rio Vista?
CC: They had a humongous kitchen there at the center. The mess hall had a large kitchen, you can imagine, it was large enough to prepare food for fifteen, sixteen hundred braceros.
RC: And you mentioned Amen Wardy.
CC: Amen Wardy was the private contractor who contracted with the Department of Labor to feed the braceros.
RC: And he did that the whole three years?
CC: I think he did that for about eight or ten years.
RC: Is that right?
CC: He did that for the seven years that I was there. (coughs) So, when I was transferred to the night crew, I would make sure that they would be fed. After they were fed, I would issue blankets, and I would make sure that they were in bed by nine o’clock, lights were out by nine o’clock. I would have to patrol the area, make sure that nobody was fighting. On occasion, I’d see some fights, and I’d manage to diffuse them just by sheer intimidation. They knew that I had the authority to call the police officers, and once the police officers were there, they knew that they were going back to Mexico, and maybe even to jail locally. They didn’t know what would happen to them.
RC: And these were just fistfights?
CC: Yes.
RC: Were there ever knives, knife—
CC: No, never did I see anybody pull a knife, I not saying that they didn’t carry one, but never did I see anyone pull a knife on another bracero. There was a lot of pushing, a lot of shoving, once and a while fist fights. I could normally tell from my office, because I had a clear view of the center, because the lights would go on, and I would hear a lot of ruckus and yelling and on and on, so I would head in that direction, and I had no weapon. They knew my reputation already, that I was a very harsh man, and I was five eleven, almost six feet tall, and I weighed a hundred and ninety, so I was a good sized man, bigger than most of the braceros, and they knew that I was in good shape. So they not only had to tangle with me, but actually, what they were fearful of was the unknown, “What is going to happen to me if I don’t stop? Are they going to take me to jail here? Are they going to send me back to Mexico?” And it was the fear of the unknown, a tool that I utilized very well. After they were in bed, I would patrol the area, and I had some paperwork to do. I’d have about an hour and a half of free time to study. I was relieved at midnight. I would study from midnight till about three o’clock in the morning there at the bracero reception center, and then I would go home. I would sleep for about three hours, get up, take a shower, eat breakfast, and go to college. And when I had lab in the afternoon, because I was taking accounting and invariably would have labs, so I would get out of class at 2:30 or three o’clock in the afternoon. I’d go to my house, pick up my lunch, to be at the bracero reception center at 3:30, and I did that for four years. Finally, I got my accounting degree.
RC: And what year did you get your degree?
CC: In 1962 is when I graduated.
RC: Okay. Were you in uniform?
CC: Well, yes and no. I was in uniform, we were not required to wear uniforms, but those of us that had been in the military would wear our military uniform, which means khaki. We would wear our combat boots, we would wear our khaki pants, we would wear our khaki shirts, but no insignias and no stripes, but by looking at us, anybody could tell that there was a military uniform. And one of the young men that assisted me had been in the Marines, so he would like to wear his Marine uniform with, as I said, no insignias, no stripes, no rank, nothing. We were required to take all that off.
RC: Oh. What did the braceros bring with them?
CC: They would bring practically nothing. They carried what I would call a gym bag, which means, in my gym bag, to this day, I carry shorts, bathing suits, a solar belt, sweat pants, a sweatshirt, a change of underwear, change of socks, and soap in this. I don’t think they carried soap, but maybe they did, but they carried probably a change of clothing, and maybe a change of underwear, and a change of socks, and a jacket in case it was needed, and that was it. It was a very small bag. They were told in Chihuahua that they had to travel light.
RC: Did they search those bags?
CC: None of us ever searched them. Nowadays, I can imagine that would be terrible, but way back then, nobody ever searched them. Mexican immigration didn’t search them, American immigration didn’t search them, I didn’t search them, nobody at the bracero reception center searched them. We had had no experience of any need to search them, so until we discerned that there was an absolute need to do something, we would refrain from it. During the seven years that I was there, I don’t recall that any braceros were searched, because we never saw the need for it.
RC: When you were working there, how long had the Rio Vista been open?
CC: I really don’t know, but I received the impression that it started sometime in 1949 or 1950, way back then. It’s my understanding that the bracero reception center was at the Coliseum, the El Paso Coliseum, which still exists, and as two or three years later, it was transferred to the Rio Vista location. I think it had been there for about three or four years, in 1955, when I started working there. And needless to say, there was a lot of turnover, because the jobs didn’t pay very well. As I said before, that I started as GS3, and then when I transferred to the night crew, I was demoted to a GS2, but I made up for that with a humongous amount that I got from the VA for my going to college, which was one hundred and twenty dollars a month.
RC: (laughs) Well, it all adds up, doesn’t it? What did the braceros do when you were on the night shift, after dinner?
CC: They would play cards, they had a lot of conversations, they would get together in groups, planning strategies, you know, what’s available? “You guys have been here before, tell us,” you know, “what is it we need to do? What is it we need to learn from you guys to go and do what we want to do?” So the experienced bracero was invaluable to the inexperienced bracero. And it was at night that they would exchange information and educate each other.
RC: Um-hm. You remember any music?
CC: Oh, yes. Some of them carried a little radio. I had a radio, and once in a while I’d play music for them over the PA system, Mexican music, which I still love, and of course they loved. Now I did that till about nine o’clock, 9:30 max, because most of them were tired, and they wanted to get some rest. That is not to say that they could not sleep with nice music in the air.
RC: After they completed their work contract, and they came back through, tell me about when they would come back. What kind of processing did they have to go through to go back home?
CC: It was very minor. They would go through contracting, and the contract would be terminated, nullified, or whatever, I don’t recall the terminology. And as far as the feeding was concerned, it was the same. As far as the housing was concerned, it was the same. And the en masse interviews by the Mexican Consul was the same, because the Mexican Consul would speak to them before they left, keep track of all the injustices that you received, the exploitation, because we need to know, and the only way that we’re gonna correct that is by getting information from your people. And they were debriefed, as we would say in the Army, when they were returning. They would bring, by the thousands, old Singer sewing machines. They would have problems carrying them, and problems loading them onto the buses that would bring them to the center, and the buses that would take them from the center to the bridge to be processed through American immigration again at the bridge, which is very minor. The American immigration knew that just by looking at them, they knew that they were braceros. Mexican immigration knew that they were braceros, and of course they would try to shake them down for money. I guess so, a lot of them were, “What it is that you bring? Well, you can’t bring that. If you do, you need to give me some pesos,” and this and that and the other.” They had to face that from the time they left their homes in Mexico, and in the United States, they were victims, they, they were, there’s no other way to put it. They were victims even in their own country. The Mexican government was callous, didn’t care very much about them. They were the poor, still the poor. In this country, again they were the poorest of the poor. The only people that could related to them were people like me, and I didn’t have time to relate to them. The gringo farmers, and some of them were Mexican Americans, most of the them were gringo farmers, could relate to them only to the extent that they needed them, and they would try to accommodate them to extent that they would do the job, because they needed them. That is not to say that they wouldn’t fudge here and there the things that they would do for them.
RC: What is your sense of what percentage of braceros actually returned to Mexico?
CC: Wow, uh, that’s very, very difficult to say. When I was working there, my guess is that only 1 or 2 percent remained behind, and a lot of them remained behind, because their contracts were extended, which was legal. The farmer, or the rancher, or the contractor would contact the bracero reception center and provide the information that was needed to the Department of Labor, detailing who needed whom for what, for what extended period of time. Some braceros had their contracts extended time and time and time again, for years, and the farmers would allow them, in between contracts, to go back home and visit family. And also it was rumored, and I don’t know this first hand, that some of the braceros would leave the farms when the contract was up, and they’d go to another farmer and work illegally as undocumented Mexican. What percentage did that, I don’t have the foggiest.
RC: When they would go home, and then they’d want to work as a bracero again, did they have to go through the entire process with you?
CC: The entire process.
RC: And then to Rio Vista?
CC: The whole process had to be repeated every single time, every single time. Now, I must mention that there were several, there were three bracero reception centers that I know of in the country. One of them was in Eagle Pass, one of them was in El Paso, and the other one was in El Centro, California, and from those three bracero reception centers, the braceros were sent all over the nation. Some would even go to Colorado and Nebraska and Wyoming and do ranch work, Colorado to do beets and Arkansas and Louisiana. Well, I don’t know that any state was exempt. If they could show need for the bracero, the bracero was sent there.
RC: Do you recall a favorite location for the braceros?
CC: Well, sure. The braceros that were from Juárez would prefer to stay in the El Paso area, because on weekends they could go visit family, and particularly the experienced ones.
RC: So all they’d need to cross, to see the family and come back, would be the ID card that was issued?
CC: Right, at the bracero reception center. So it was not a major problem. And then some of them that were expertly in picking cotton or picking cantaloupe would want to go to Pecos, because you earn a lot more money over there. So they would sacrifice seeing relatives, weekly or monthly, so as to receive higher wages and make more money.
RC: Did you ever witness any results of accidents on the job or did you ever hear [of any]?
CC: Yes, we would hear of them, and on occasion we would hear some braceros returning home on crutches or with canes. I never saw anybody return home or return to the bracero center by ambulance, obviously because then that was not our job. If somebody was seriously hurt at the farms, then medical personnel would take over. They had precedence, and they were treated at hospitals until they were recuperated. And then from there, they were either sent home or they were sent to the bracero reception center to be processed back home. If the accident was severe, their contracts were cancelled there at the hospital, and they were sent back home.
RC: Did they receive any inoculations at Rio Vista?
CC: You know, I don’t remember that they received any, but it wouldn’t surprise me if they did [or] if they did not. I’m hoping that you get to speak to (coughs) some personnel. I have a friend, Lopez, who I’m gonna contact, if you haven’t contacted him, and he worked for U.S. Public Health, and he can give you all the details.
RC: All right. What is your personal opinion of the Bracero Program?
CC: I think it was needed. (clears throat) Based on my observations now in society, and I’m a writer now, so I’m very observative, I’m very conscious of people all around me. I write about philosophy, psychology, sociology. I don’t think that they’re in the dire need now that they were back then. Way back then they were needed, because they were not sufficient or at least it was proven to the satisfaction of the government they were not sufficient, the laborers in the United States to do the job. Some of them had been drafted for the Second World War, a lot of them had been drafted for the Korean War, as I was drafted for the Korean War. Right now, getting back to the future, there’s no draft. There are a lot of people, a lot of men on welfare. There are a lot of women that could do work, that would do the work in lieu of the bracero. I’m not going to be so presumptuous to say that there’re some areas within the United States that have need for them. Now in the El Paso area, I have not discerned a need. To begin with, way back then, they, the braceros, were chopping cotton, picking cotton. Way back then, a farmer would require, depending on the size of his farm, anywhere between twenty-five to a hundred and fifty, two hundred braceros to pick the cotton. Limón farms, which had about fifteen hundred acres, which I measured later on in life as an employee of the Agriculture Extension Service and Conservation Service, had about fourteen, fifteen acres in cultivation in alfalfa and cotton, milo. They would utilize two or three hundred braceros to pick that cotton. Right now, they use four or five cotton-picking machines. So, as far as picking cotton, the braceros, there’s no need for ‘em, picking onions, there’s no need for ‘em, it’s all done by machinery, bailing hay, there’s no need for them. I used to help my father in the bailing of hay when I was nine years old. I was the block man, block boy. Imagine this, there was a tractor driver, two pitchfork men, one on each side of the bailer, the two men sittin’ on the bailer, one was the wire passer, the other one was a wire tire, and me, the block boy. So there was one, two, three, four, five, six persons. Now, one person, the tractor driver, does all the work. So, the modern inventions have eliminated millions and millions of menial jobs, of labor jobs. Even pickin’ chile there’s machines. I don’t know that there’s not a machine to pick anything anymore.
RC: So you don’t think the program should be revived?
CC: I am not going to be so presumptive as to say no. I will say this, I don’t see any need for them locally.
RC: Okay. Well, I think that will put an end to this interview now, and I’ll thank you formally on the tape, and I’ll say this is the end.
End of interview
Date of Interview: February 5, 2003
Name of Interviewer: Rebecca Craver
Today is February 5, 2003, and this is an interview with Carlos Corella, and I am Rebecca Craver, and this interview will be part of the Bracero Project.
RC: Okay, let’s just start kind of with some biographical information, that’s usually the way we start. So, tell me where you were born and when.
CC: I was born and raised in Clint; it’s a little town about six miles east of El Paso. I was born on October 2, 1933, which means that I’m going to be seventy here, in three or four months. I graduated from Clint High School. Shortly after my graduation, I was drafted for the Korean War. The Korean War ended two weeks before I finished my infantry training, so we were scattered all over. Fortunately, I was sent to Europe. I spent eighteen months in Germany, and I traveled all over Germany, France, Italy, Spain, Austria, and Switzerland. After my discharge, I went to work for the U.S. Department of Labor, at the bracero reception center, also known as Rio Vista.
RC: Okay, so let’s get some of these dates, years, down for me. When did you start service in the Army? Was it ’50?
CC: From June of ’53 to April of ’55.
RC: Okay. And how did you hear about this job at the Department of Labor? Why did you go to work for them?
CC: I don’t really remember. The only thing I can remember is that there were a lot of young men and women working there. I was a mechanic in the Army, and I didn’t want to do anymore mechanic work, so I decided to try Rio Vista, even though I was making probably a third of the money that I would have been making as a mechanic working at Fort Bliss. (interviewer laughs) And that’s how I got started. I started there probably in June of 1955, April or June of 1955, April or May of 1955. Shortly thereafter, I was placed in charge of the importation of the braceros. I had two helpers under me, in addition to two other nongovernmental employees that worked for a contractor that were responsible for feeding the braceros. You want me to follow the progression?
RC: Yeah, but let me back up a little bit. What qualified you for the job?
CC: There were no specific qualifications. It was not considered a job that required a lot of education or talent, I suppose. The grades were very low, I started as a GS3, if you can imagine, and I think the lowest grade way back then in government services was GS2. Fortunately, I had just gotten out of the service, and I was husky and aggressive, disciplined, and I suppose my supervisors noticed that, and they placed me in charge of the importation of braceros. So, there were no special requirements.
RC: And what particular instructions did you have?
CC: Absolutely none. (interviewer laughs) My supervisor just said, “Look Carlos, I’m gonna
take you over there, and you can watch me, what it is that I’m doing, me and these other
two young men.” My supervisor at the time was Teodoro Alejandro, who was the chief of transportation, and he was only a GS7. I say only because I retired as a [GS]13, so you know, to me a [GS]5 was a huge number. But anyway, looking at it retrospectively, he was only a GS5, GS7, and I went over there. We went to the train station in Juárez, and we talked to some Mexican personnel at the train station, and we picked up the list of the braceros, from there, we marched them to downtown Juárez, through the Mexican officials at the Santa Fe Bridge.
RC: And how many would be in this group?
CC: Anywhere from eight hundred to sixteen hundred, at a time, so getting them from the train station, through the city, and to the bridge was a big problem.
RC: Describe what it looked like.
CC: Well, fortunately, I was in excellent shape. The train station is about a mile and a half, two miles from the bridge, so I would run that trek three or four times so as to keep order and make sure that the Mexican police in Juárez would assist me in stopping the traffic to let two or three hundred braceros cross the streets, and then they’d open the street back to traffic, and then they’d close it back out, let another two or three hundred braceros cross that particular street, we’re talking about ten, fifteen streets that braceros had to cross, so needless to say, Mexican city police were very occupied (interviewer laughs) in helping me. I’m very, very appreciative that they did that, I don’t think that they did that to assist me, but they did that to assist their own people, because they knew that if someone did not control the traffic, some of the braceros would get hurt, nonetheless, I’m very appreciative that they were helping at the bridge. I would very, very cursorily process them through Mexican immigration, hand them the manifest, which was the list of the braceros, their names and addresses, and I would help Mexican immigration identify them, I said, “Well, these are my people,” you know, “these are the braceros.”
RC: At this point they had no ID on them?
CC: They had a piece of paper, which we called Form 14, which showed their name, the address, and other information, height, weight, a very brief physical description, that’s about all I remember that was on that sheet of paper, which was about four and a half inches by about seven inches. I would process them through Mexican workers, and then I’d do the same thing, very cursorily, through American immigration. The Mexican and American officials knew me, so they assumed that everybody that was in line crossing the bridge under the guise of a bracero was a bracero. I don’t recall that they ever questioned any individual or me for that matter, “Are you sure that all these people are braceros?” They just had to assume, because otherwise it would have taken us two days to process these people. After the processing went through American immigration, then they were on the U.S. side of the border, and below there is a huge levee where I would congregate ‘em, and I would feed ‘em individually a sack lunch, which consisted of an apple and two gringo bologna sandwiches in a brown paper bag. They would look at it, some of them were surprised, they didn’t know what it was. Some of ‘em that had come before knew that they were bologna sandwiches, and they ate ‘em anyway, they were hungry. The trip, incidentally, going back from Chihuahua to Juárez was a horrendous trip for ‘em. It was by rail, and they were brought over from Chihuahua in cattle cars. I don’t know how many stops they made, but it was about a seven-hour trip. If you can imagine, packed in rail cars, and as I said before, I don’t know whether they made any stops to allow them to relieve themselves. That part of the story I don’t know. I’m sure that the braceros would be able to fill in that portion of it. So, to get back to where we were on the U.S. side of the border, then I would feed ‘em, and they would eat anything, poor devils. Then I would order the buses, I would call the bracero reception center, “I’m ready for the buses,” and the buses were yellow buses that were owned by Orville Story. He was a private contractor with the government. He had about fifty buses, and we would load ‘em onto the buses. The buses would carry them to the bracero reception center, also known as Rio Vista. Until the last bracero left, then I would get on the last bus, and go up to the bracero reception center. Incidentally, most of the braceros would arrive about nine or ten or eleven o’clock in the morning, which means that they were traveling at night, although on occasion, they would come in at three or four or five o’clock in the afternoon, which tells me that they left Chihuahua in the morning. Even the Mexican Nationals that lived around Juárez that wanted to become braceros would have to make the trip to Chihuahua where they were processed by the Mexican government and then sent back to Juárez. So we would process ‘em. They were fed by another private contractor for the U.S. Department of Labor, and way back then, it was Amen Wardy. He was the person in charge of, well the person that fed ‘em, not only there at the levee, but also at the bracero reception center. At the bracero reception center there were hot lunches, and they would consist of several items, some consisted of beans, naturally the Mexican staple, and mashed potatoes, and sometimes ham, and sometimes bologna sandwiches, and sometimes fried pieces of meat. It would vary.
RC: How long would the bracero stay at Rio Vista before he was transported out to a job?
CC: It would depend. The bracero reception center was always crowded with what we called contractors. Some of the contractors were private contractors that had been hired by farmers. Some of the farmers were local farmers, and some of ‘em were from Dell City and Pecos, and even from out of El Paso, even from out of state. After they would be processed, the first order of business for the braceros when they got to the bracero reception center was that they had to be disinfected, so they would go through U.S. Public Health, one of the governmental agencies there. There were three governmental agencies at the bracero reception center, which were U.S. Public Health, U.S. Department of Labor, for whom I worked, and U.S. Immigration, which also processed them. So, first order of business was to disinfect them. They would go through, they were formed in about four or five lines, they were placed through a Quonset hut, and they were asked to strip, and they were sprayed with a white powder all over their body, including their hair, facial hair, the hair on their head, and even around the low area. Some of the braceros that experienced that for the first time were embarrassed, and some thought it was kind of cute, it was a laughing matter. When they would come out of the Quonset hut, they would look at each other, and they were all white, and they’d say, “Well, I guess we’re gringos now.” (both laugh) Humor was always part of the way that they tolerated the adventure. After they were processed through public health, then we feed them, after we would feed them, then we would send them to a selection line. We called it a selection line, and there the contractors or farmers, whichever would happen to be the case, would speak to them, and based on a very, very short interview, three, four questions: “Do you know how to pick cotton? Do you know how to pick cantaloupe? Do you know how to pick corn? Do know how to pick strawberries? Do you know how to pick watermelons? Do you know how to pick cantaloupe?” Depending on their response, they would choose the braceros. They would select them, and they were considered then the property of that contractor or that farmer. They were placed aside and processed individually under that contractor, under that farmer, and eventually transported to their final destination, either the farm of the individual farmer or wherever the contractor would choose to send them, because the contractors would contract for several farmers. Some of the braceros would leave that afternoon, but most of them would not. I would say about 20 percent would leave that afternoon, which means that 80 percent would have to be housed there. We had four or five barracks, the army type, [with] cots. We would issue blankets at night, whether they needed them or not, if they didn’t need them, they could use them as pillows. The next morning, we would feed them breakfast, and the contractors would be there at seven o’clock in the morning at the selection line to contract more. Well, I need to back up. After they were processed through public health, then they were sent through contracting, no, they were selected and then they were sent through contracting. Contracting wrote up all the contracts, and the contract was very, very extensive. I don’t know whether anybody ever read it, I never read one. They consisted of about three or four pages of small print and in English, mind you. I don’t know that even the contractors read them; I don’t know that even the farmers read them, but it was all legalese. Then they were processed. There were about twenty young pretty ladies, just out of high school, that would type all the documents, insert the names on documents that had already been prepared, and they would then type the name and address of the individual bracero onto the document. A U.S. government official would sign it, the braceros would sign it (coughs) and then they were processed through U.S. Immigration. (coughs) After they were processed through U.S. Immigration, then they were clear to be contracted, and that’s when they were moved to the selection line. Once they were selected, then they would go through the transportation department of the Department of Labor, which is the department for whom I worked, and there at the bracero reception center, they were loaded onto buses or trucks, some of them were cattle trucks, some of them were sixteen-wheelers, eighteen-wheelers, buses, pick-ups. A farmer would come in, and he’d want four or five; he’d take them in the back of his pickup. Some farmer would bring his own bus, he wanted fifty or sixty, and then we wouldn’t see them until four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten months later. But getting back to the 80 percent that remained at the bracero reception center, the next morning, another 20 or 30 percent would leave, they were selected and contracted and processed. Normally, within three and a half days all one thousand or sixteen hundred braceros would be gone, which means that by that time another load of braceros would be coming in [the others would be gone], which was my job to go pick ‘em up and send ‘em to the bracero reception center.
RC: Did you ever have trouble, like, doubling up where there would be sixteen hundred at Rio Vista and then here came another shipment?
CC: No, no, the timing was practically perfect. The flow of braceros was controlled at Chihuahua, and when my supervisor, the senior manager, Mr. Rhodes, would see that the bracero reception center could accommodate X number of braceros, he would call Chihuahua and say, “Well okay, we’re practically vacant now so you can send another load.” That’s how the population at the bracero reception center was controlled.
RC: I see, okay. Now when you talked about feeding them, was there a mess hall at Rio Vista?
CC: There was a humongous mess hall that would seat about two hundred at a time. Of course, the braceros got used to the idea of the Army, that you hurry up and wait and stand in line, you stand in line to be fed, you stand in line to be contracted, you stand in line to be processed through immigration, you stand in line to be processed through public health, you stand in line to get blankets, you stand in line to do this and that and the other. That’s where some of the problem would arise for some of the employees, because some of the braceros were not used to discipline. Some of them were so humble, coming from remote villages, that they really didn’t know what an order was. They thought it was easy enough if they would see a friend or a relative at the head of the line, that it was easy enough for him to run, he or three or four of them from the same little town, to run and get in line with his friends. It was up to us to let them know that they had to form the line at the rear. That was the main problem that we had, keeping order, keeping people from bucking the line, as we used call it in the service, forming the line at the end of the line, but other than that, I don’t recall having any major problems. There were a few that were experienced, that had come over as braceros five, six, seven, perhaps even eight or ten times before, so they were not as shy, and they were more daring, and they would try things that the other braceros would not try to do, of course, buck the line, and this and that and the other, cheat as to where they wanted to go. I don’t blame them. Some of them, many of them, had a choice where to go depending on their experience; a lot of them did not. They would try to go to a place where all of their friends and or relatives would be sent to, which is understandable. Sometimes the little groups had to be broken up. I’m gonna get a little ahead of myself, because this remark needs to be made here. After I was no longer in charge of the importation of braceros, I was part of the crew at the bracero reception center. I would overhear some of the braceros wanting to make some kind of a ___(?), some kind of a plan so that they would go to the same farm, and I would tell them, “Well, the best way to do that is when the contractor asks you, ‘Do you know how to pick cotton?’ Tell him, ‘yes,’ even if you’ve never picked it before, you can learn how to pick cotton in fifteen minutes. So, if all of you say yes to just about everything the contractor is asking you, it’s very likely that all of us will go to the same farm. If two or three of you have experience picking cotton and then four or five of you don’t, well you know they’re not going to send you to the same place, because the contractor wants people with experience, because they’re the braceros that pick cotton the quickest and the fastest and who become the most profitable. So, just tell them, no matter what kind of a job you’re gonna do, whether it’s melon picking, watermelon, cherries, strawberries, cotton, corn, whatever, just tell them yeah, you can learn it in five minutes.” I felt kinda obligated to keep some of these humble people together (coughs) although I suppose that I felt kinda guilty, because I used to mistreat them in order to keep order. Even though I was a U.S. government official, I had no time for courtesies. I would look into their bewildered faces and bark orders at them, “Go over there. Run over here. Stand over there,” and they’d wanna ask me questions, “I don’t have time for you, just get in line,” and this and that and the other. I was young and aggressive, and sometimes when they would buck the line, I’d just grab them by the shoulders and just kick them out of the line, throw them out. It seemed that some of the braceros would see that we were so harsh with them that they would make fewer attempts to do the things that they were not supposed to do, and since we didn’t carry weapons, the only thing that we had to keep order was our harsh manner of speaking and hollering at them.
RC: Oh gee. Did you have a bullhorn or—
CC: Yes, we had bullhorns, and the bracero reception center had a PA system. When we wanted to give orders to the general populous at the center, then of course that was done through the PA system. When we wanted to localize the order to a certain corner of the center, we would use bullhorns. I must also say that at the bracero reception center there was another federal office, and there was the Mexican Consulate. A Mexican consul with two assistants was at the center to, I suppose, keep us from being excessively abusive. When they were coming back after they had completed the contract or when the job had been finished, whichever would come first, they would come back to the bracero reception center, and they would go back home. The Mexican consul would invariably get together with them, every single load, and ask them if they had any complaints, if they had been mistreated, if they had been abused, if they had been exploited, if they had been paid properly. He would prod ‘em, because most of them would not want to complain, understandably, because they anticipated coming back next year, and they got used to the idea that certain exploitation, certain abuse was expected, it was part of being a bracero, so they tolerated it. There were some braceros that were promised X number of dollars, and they were not paid the correct amount. Some of the farmers would have their commissaries, stores on site at the farm, to provide whatever the bracero needed, so that they wouldn’t have to go to town, so that they could work them sometimes seven days a week. The braceros would tell me, and sometimes the Mexican consul, that the prices that they would have to pay at the commissary, at the store at the farm, was inflated 30, 40, 50 percent, sometimes 100 percent, and they would discern that when they would go to town on a weekend, and they would check the prices in the grocery stores in town. (interviewer laughs) They’d say, “Wow, we’re paying too much for our food,” and sometimes they would go back and tell the farmer, “You’ve been charging us too much,” those that had a little more nerve. Some of the farmers would bring down the price. The idea was the farmers to accommodate the braceros, and the braceros to accommodate the farmer in the work. Nonetheless, the farmer had the knife and the cheese, and he would slice it anyway he pleased, so the braceros, was many times victimized. Getting back to my friend who was a Mexican consul, he and I became friends when I was assigned to the bracero reception center and no longer in charge of the importation of the braceros. He saw that I was so harsh with the braceros in my barking orders at them and the way I would handle them, that he gave me the title of Sargento Mal Pagado, which translated literally means the poorly paid sergeant, but what it really connotes, idiomatically, is a sergeant with a bad attitude, because he’s so poorly paid. Sometimes, I would be going by when he was querying them, after their return from the farms, and he would point at me, and he would ask them, in Spanish of course, “¿Cómo los trato el Sargento Mal Pagado?”. “How were you treated by this badass sergeant?” They would look at me and grin, and they didn’t know what to say, and then of course I’d just keep walking, and they were free to speak their mind. I’m sure that there were a lot of complaints that were made to my supervisor about me and about other employees. They were legitimate, but there was no other way to keep order, and finally my supervisors knew that, and finally, I have to assume, the Mexican consul and his assistants discerned the same thing. There’s just no other way but to be very, very harsh with these people, and everything was permissible, other than hitting them, but jerking them out of lines and pushing them, all that was permissible. It was overlooked. I don’t know whether that would be true today, but that way back then, it was permissible.
RC: Did everybody at Rio Vista speak Spanish?
CC: Yes, well, um—
RC: Most of them?
CC: Well, I said yes immediately, because every single employee was bilingual. The only non-bilingual personnel was the center manager, Mr. Rhodes, the assistant to the manager, Mr. Rucker, the chief of reception, Mr. Schaeffer, and the chief of contracting, Mr. McDonald, but their assistants were all Mexican American, all bilingual.
RC: Okay, for the record, could you give me those people’s first names along with their title?
CC: Well, Mr. Rhodes, no, I don’t remember his first name. Mr. Rucker, H.L. Rucker, I don’t remember his first name, was the center assistant. Mr. Schaeffer, chief of reception, I don’t remember his first name, all of us knew him as Mr. Schaeffer, chief of contracting, McDonald, everybody called him. You have to realize that the managers at the bracero reception center were not only older than us, but they were college graduates. Some of them had been officers in the Army. I think McDonald had been a captain in the Army during the Second World War, and Mr. Rucker had been an officer in the Navy. Since they dealt with their assistants who were bilingual, they were not required to be bilingual, because they did not have to deal with the braceros, and that’s why everybody under the managers were required definitely to be bilingual. If you were not bilingual, you could not work there.
RC: Okay. That’s good to know. Do any particular incidents stand out in your mind where there was unrest or the braceros disobeyed or caused trouble?
CC: There were several instances. Let me go back when I was in charge of the importation of the braceros. Invariably, every single time that I received a load from Chihuahua, there were some people who were trying to buck the line. I got used to that, and invariably, I would have to go to where they would run on to the line, and grab them by the shoulders and pull them out, and stand right in front of their face and yell at them and tell them, “Go back to the end of the line or I’m going to send you back to Mexico, so take your choice.” They knew that I had that authority. We were given the authority that if we found people that would not accept the discipline, that would not take orders, that we could pick up their Form 14, which was their identification. Without that form they couldn’t be processed, and we would isolate them on the manifest, on the list of the braceros, and send them back. I don’t remember ever having to do that more than once or twice, because in spite of the fact that I was very harsh, I was not a cruel man. I knew that they needed the jobs. The only reason for my harshness was that that was the only tool that I had to keep discipline. I remember very distinctly, one time that I was close to the front of the line, and there were three black men coming up to pick up lunch, they were getting up close to the lunch area. (coughs) I went to talk to them, and I asked them, “Are you guys that hungry that you are willing to eat one of these lunches?” They looked at me and did not respond, and I asked them again, “Are you guys after a free lunch?” Then finally, one of them looked at the other one, and he said, “¿Qué dice?” Then I asked them, “Are you braceros, then? You don’t speak English, no?” They told me in Spanish, “No, we don’t speak English. We’re braceros,” and they were black men, black men with all the features. So, needless to say, I was very curious, and I asked them where they were from. They told me that they were from ___(?) which is a port in the Gulf of Mexico, the name escapes me, it’ll come back to me, which is where the Portuguese would drop off a lot of black slaves, and also some of the Spaniards. Way back then, in the mid-1800s, some of the black slaves remained in that area, and some of them intermarried with the indigenous people, and they became Mexican citizens, and on that occasion those three black men became braceros. (interviewer laughs) I was in charge of the importation of braceros for three years, and then I got a letter from the Army telling me that I had six months to enroll in a university or I would lose my GI bill of rights. All this time, for two and a half years, almost three years, I had plans to go to college, I wanted to go to college, get a degree, and get a super job, and I had kept postponing it. I ended up getting married. I was married, and I had two kids when I received the letter from the VA. Immediately I called UTEP, it was Texas Western College at the time, I asked them when I could enroll, and they told me, “You can enroll in February, which is about three months away,” and I said, “I’ll be there.” I asked (coughs) my immediate supervisor if I could transfer to the night crew, because I wanted to go to college during the day, and he wouldn’t allow me. He said, “No, I need you. I need you over there. You’re doing a super job, and I need you over there.” Finally, after proddin’ him about two weeks, and he would not relent, I spoke to his supervisor, and I informed him, who was the assistant center manager, who was a college graduate. My supervisor was not a college graduate; he was Mexican American. Then I spoke to the assistant center manager, and I told him exactly what I wanted to do, that I wanted to transfer to the night crew, because I wanted to go to college and get a degree. He had a degree, and he could understand. He said, “Carlos, don’t worry about it. I’ll talk to your supervisor. Just tell me when it is, when you want to start.” And that’s how I was transferred to the night crew, which means that I worked from 3:30 in the afternoon to midnight. There was another guard that would relieve me at midnight, who worked from midnight to six in the morning. My job then was to feed them, keep order in the chow line, and make sure that each one of them were fed properly. Sometimes the contractor would fudge on the lunches. It got to the point where we were weighing every single plate to make sure that they got the ounces that the government was paying for.
RC: And these people that made the food for ‘em, did they set up kitchens at Rio Vista?
CC: They had a humongous kitchen there at the center. The mess hall had a large kitchen, you can imagine, it was large enough to prepare food for fifteen, sixteen hundred braceros.
RC: And you mentioned Amen Wardy.
CC: Amen Wardy was the private contractor who contracted with the Department of Labor to feed the braceros.
RC: And he did that the whole three years?
CC: I think he did that for about eight or ten years.
RC: Is that right?
CC: He did that for the seven years that I was there. (coughs) So, when I was transferred to the night crew, I would make sure that they would be fed. After they were fed, I would issue blankets, and I would make sure that they were in bed by nine o’clock, lights were out by nine o’clock. I would have to patrol the area, make sure that nobody was fighting. On occasion, I’d see some fights, and I’d manage to diffuse them just by sheer intimidation. They knew that I had the authority to call the police officers, and once the police officers were there, they knew that they were going back to Mexico, and maybe even to jail locally. They didn’t know what would happen to them.
RC: And these were just fistfights?
CC: Yes.
RC: Were there ever knives, knife—
CC: No, never did I see anybody pull a knife, I not saying that they didn’t carry one, but never did I see anyone pull a knife on another bracero. There was a lot of pushing, a lot of shoving, once and a while fist fights. I could normally tell from my office, because I had a clear view of the center, because the lights would go on, and I would hear a lot of ruckus and yelling and on and on, so I would head in that direction, and I had no weapon. They knew my reputation already, that I was a very harsh man, and I was five eleven, almost six feet tall, and I weighed a hundred and ninety, so I was a good sized man, bigger than most of the braceros, and they knew that I was in good shape. So they not only had to tangle with me, but actually, what they were fearful of was the unknown, “What is going to happen to me if I don’t stop? Are they going to take me to jail here? Are they going to send me back to Mexico?” And it was the fear of the unknown, a tool that I utilized very well. After they were in bed, I would patrol the area, and I had some paperwork to do. I’d have about an hour and a half of free time to study. I was relieved at midnight. I would study from midnight till about three o’clock in the morning there at the bracero reception center, and then I would go home. I would sleep for about three hours, get up, take a shower, eat breakfast, and go to college. And when I had lab in the afternoon, because I was taking accounting and invariably would have labs, so I would get out of class at 2:30 or three o’clock in the afternoon. I’d go to my house, pick up my lunch, to be at the bracero reception center at 3:30, and I did that for four years. Finally, I got my accounting degree.
RC: And what year did you get your degree?
CC: In 1962 is when I graduated.
RC: Okay. Were you in uniform?
CC: Well, yes and no. I was in uniform, we were not required to wear uniforms, but those of us that had been in the military would wear our military uniform, which means khaki. We would wear our combat boots, we would wear our khaki pants, we would wear our khaki shirts, but no insignias and no stripes, but by looking at us, anybody could tell that there was a military uniform. And one of the young men that assisted me had been in the Marines, so he would like to wear his Marine uniform with, as I said, no insignias, no stripes, no rank, nothing. We were required to take all that off.
RC: Oh. What did the braceros bring with them?
CC: They would bring practically nothing. They carried what I would call a gym bag, which means, in my gym bag, to this day, I carry shorts, bathing suits, a solar belt, sweat pants, a sweatshirt, a change of underwear, change of socks, and soap in this. I don’t think they carried soap, but maybe they did, but they carried probably a change of clothing, and maybe a change of underwear, and a change of socks, and a jacket in case it was needed, and that was it. It was a very small bag. They were told in Chihuahua that they had to travel light.
RC: Did they search those bags?
CC: None of us ever searched them. Nowadays, I can imagine that would be terrible, but way back then, nobody ever searched them. Mexican immigration didn’t search them, American immigration didn’t search them, I didn’t search them, nobody at the bracero reception center searched them. We had had no experience of any need to search them, so until we discerned that there was an absolute need to do something, we would refrain from it. During the seven years that I was there, I don’t recall that any braceros were searched, because we never saw the need for it.
RC: When you were working there, how long had the Rio Vista been open?
CC: I really don’t know, but I received the impression that it started sometime in 1949 or 1950, way back then. It’s my understanding that the bracero reception center was at the Coliseum, the El Paso Coliseum, which still exists, and as two or three years later, it was transferred to the Rio Vista location. I think it had been there for about three or four years, in 1955, when I started working there. And needless to say, there was a lot of turnover, because the jobs didn’t pay very well. As I said before, that I started as GS3, and then when I transferred to the night crew, I was demoted to a GS2, but I made up for that with a humongous amount that I got from the VA for my going to college, which was one hundred and twenty dollars a month.
RC: (laughs) Well, it all adds up, doesn’t it? What did the braceros do when you were on the night shift, after dinner?
CC: They would play cards, they had a lot of conversations, they would get together in groups, planning strategies, you know, what’s available? “You guys have been here before, tell us,” you know, “what is it we need to do? What is it we need to learn from you guys to go and do what we want to do?” So the experienced bracero was invaluable to the inexperienced bracero. And it was at night that they would exchange information and educate each other.
RC: Um-hm. You remember any music?
CC: Oh, yes. Some of them carried a little radio. I had a radio, and once in a while I’d play music for them over the PA system, Mexican music, which I still love, and of course they loved. Now I did that till about nine o’clock, 9:30 max, because most of them were tired, and they wanted to get some rest. That is not to say that they could not sleep with nice music in the air.
RC: After they completed their work contract, and they came back through, tell me about when they would come back. What kind of processing did they have to go through to go back home?
CC: It was very minor. They would go through contracting, and the contract would be terminated, nullified, or whatever, I don’t recall the terminology. And as far as the feeding was concerned, it was the same. As far as the housing was concerned, it was the same. And the en masse interviews by the Mexican Consul was the same, because the Mexican Consul would speak to them before they left, keep track of all the injustices that you received, the exploitation, because we need to know, and the only way that we’re gonna correct that is by getting information from your people. And they were debriefed, as we would say in the Army, when they were returning. They would bring, by the thousands, old Singer sewing machines. They would have problems carrying them, and problems loading them onto the buses that would bring them to the center, and the buses that would take them from the center to the bridge to be processed through American immigration again at the bridge, which is very minor. The American immigration knew that just by looking at them, they knew that they were braceros. Mexican immigration knew that they were braceros, and of course they would try to shake them down for money. I guess so, a lot of them were, “What it is that you bring? Well, you can’t bring that. If you do, you need to give me some pesos,” and this and that and the other.” They had to face that from the time they left their homes in Mexico, and in the United States, they were victims, they, they were, there’s no other way to put it. They were victims even in their own country. The Mexican government was callous, didn’t care very much about them. They were the poor, still the poor. In this country, again they were the poorest of the poor. The only people that could related to them were people like me, and I didn’t have time to relate to them. The gringo farmers, and some of them were Mexican Americans, most of the them were gringo farmers, could relate to them only to the extent that they needed them, and they would try to accommodate them to extent that they would do the job, because they needed them. That is not to say that they wouldn’t fudge here and there the things that they would do for them.
RC: What is your sense of what percentage of braceros actually returned to Mexico?
CC: Wow, uh, that’s very, very difficult to say. When I was working there, my guess is that only 1 or 2 percent remained behind, and a lot of them remained behind, because their contracts were extended, which was legal. The farmer, or the rancher, or the contractor would contact the bracero reception center and provide the information that was needed to the Department of Labor, detailing who needed whom for what, for what extended period of time. Some braceros had their contracts extended time and time and time again, for years, and the farmers would allow them, in between contracts, to go back home and visit family. And also it was rumored, and I don’t know this first hand, that some of the braceros would leave the farms when the contract was up, and they’d go to another farmer and work illegally as undocumented Mexican. What percentage did that, I don’t have the foggiest.
RC: When they would go home, and then they’d want to work as a bracero again, did they have to go through the entire process with you?
CC: The entire process.
RC: And then to Rio Vista?
CC: The whole process had to be repeated every single time, every single time. Now, I must mention that there were several, there were three bracero reception centers that I know of in the country. One of them was in Eagle Pass, one of them was in El Paso, and the other one was in El Centro, California, and from those three bracero reception centers, the braceros were sent all over the nation. Some would even go to Colorado and Nebraska and Wyoming and do ranch work, Colorado to do beets and Arkansas and Louisiana. Well, I don’t know that any state was exempt. If they could show need for the bracero, the bracero was sent there.
RC: Do you recall a favorite location for the braceros?
CC: Well, sure. The braceros that were from Juárez would prefer to stay in the El Paso area, because on weekends they could go visit family, and particularly the experienced ones.
RC: So all they’d need to cross, to see the family and come back, would be the ID card that was issued?
CC: Right, at the bracero reception center. So it was not a major problem. And then some of them that were expertly in picking cotton or picking cantaloupe would want to go to Pecos, because you earn a lot more money over there. So they would sacrifice seeing relatives, weekly or monthly, so as to receive higher wages and make more money.
RC: Did you ever witness any results of accidents on the job or did you ever hear [of any]?
CC: Yes, we would hear of them, and on occasion we would hear some braceros returning home on crutches or with canes. I never saw anybody return home or return to the bracero center by ambulance, obviously because then that was not our job. If somebody was seriously hurt at the farms, then medical personnel would take over. They had precedence, and they were treated at hospitals until they were recuperated. And then from there, they were either sent home or they were sent to the bracero reception center to be processed back home. If the accident was severe, their contracts were cancelled there at the hospital, and they were sent back home.
RC: Did they receive any inoculations at Rio Vista?
CC: You know, I don’t remember that they received any, but it wouldn’t surprise me if they did [or] if they did not. I’m hoping that you get to speak to (coughs) some personnel. I have a friend, Lopez, who I’m gonna contact, if you haven’t contacted him, and he worked for U.S. Public Health, and he can give you all the details.
RC: All right. What is your personal opinion of the Bracero Program?
CC: I think it was needed. (clears throat) Based on my observations now in society, and I’m a writer now, so I’m very observative, I’m very conscious of people all around me. I write about philosophy, psychology, sociology. I don’t think that they’re in the dire need now that they were back then. Way back then they were needed, because they were not sufficient or at least it was proven to the satisfaction of the government they were not sufficient, the laborers in the United States to do the job. Some of them had been drafted for the Second World War, a lot of them had been drafted for the Korean War, as I was drafted for the Korean War. Right now, getting back to the future, there’s no draft. There are a lot of people, a lot of men on welfare. There are a lot of women that could do work, that would do the work in lieu of the bracero. I’m not going to be so presumptuous to say that there’re some areas within the United States that have need for them. Now in the El Paso area, I have not discerned a need. To begin with, way back then, they, the braceros, were chopping cotton, picking cotton. Way back then, a farmer would require, depending on the size of his farm, anywhere between twenty-five to a hundred and fifty, two hundred braceros to pick the cotton. Limón farms, which had about fifteen hundred acres, which I measured later on in life as an employee of the Agriculture Extension Service and Conservation Service, had about fourteen, fifteen acres in cultivation in alfalfa and cotton, milo. They would utilize two or three hundred braceros to pick that cotton. Right now, they use four or five cotton-picking machines. So, as far as picking cotton, the braceros, there’s no need for ‘em, picking onions, there’s no need for ‘em, it’s all done by machinery, bailing hay, there’s no need for them. I used to help my father in the bailing of hay when I was nine years old. I was the block man, block boy. Imagine this, there was a tractor driver, two pitchfork men, one on each side of the bailer, the two men sittin’ on the bailer, one was the wire passer, the other one was a wire tire, and me, the block boy. So there was one, two, three, four, five, six persons. Now, one person, the tractor driver, does all the work. So, the modern inventions have eliminated millions and millions of menial jobs, of labor jobs. Even pickin’ chile there’s machines. I don’t know that there’s not a machine to pick anything anymore.
RC: So you don’t think the program should be revived?
CC: I am not going to be so presumptive as to say no. I will say this, I don’t see any need for them locally.
RC: Okay. Well, I think that will put an end to this interview now, and I’ll thank you formally on the tape, and I’ll say this is the end.
End of interview
Interviewer
Craver, Rebecca
Interviewee
Corella, Carlos
Location
El Paso, Texas
File Name Identifier
Corella_ELP013
Citation
Craver, Rebecca and Corella, Carlos, “Carlos Corella,” Bracero History Archive, accessed November 26, 2024, https://braceroarchive.org/es/items/show/37.