96 25 2556 Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. subject (Spanish) Bracero Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview. Martínez, Laureano Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed. González Flores, Agustín Location The location of the interview. Durango, Durango, México Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound. Nombre del entrevistado: Agustín González Flores Fecha de la entrevista: 30 de mayo de 2003 Nombre del entrevistador: Laureano Martínez Esta es una entrevista con el señor Agustín González Flores, en la ciudad de Durango, Durango el día 30 de mayo de 2003. Conduciendo la entrevista para el Proyecto Bracero del Instituto de Historia Oral de la Universidad de Texas en El Paso, Laureano Martínez. LM: Muy buenas tardes don Agustín ¿Cómo esta? AG: Bien. LM: Don Agustín, me gustaría que me platicara para comenzar esta entrevista, ¿dónde y cuándo nació usted? AG: Nací el 28 de agosto de 1928. En el Mil Diez. LM: ¿En El Mil Diez? AG: ¿Sí sabe, allá El Mil Diez? LM: ¿En la sierra? AG: Acá a un lado de El Salto. LM: Mil Diez, Durango, ¿verdad? AG: Ándele. LM: Municipio, ¿de dónde es? AG: Pueblo Nuevo. LM: Pueblo Nuevo. AG: Pueblo Nuevo, Durango. LM: Muy bonito lugar. AG: Sí señor. LM: ¿Cuántos años tiene, don Agustín? AG: Ahora verá, pues saca la cuenta del [19]28 para acá, ¿cuántos Goyo? 2do: Vienen siendo setenta y dos. LM: Setenta y dos años. 2do: Setenta y cuatro años, más. LM: ¿A qué se dedicaron sus padres, don Agustín? AG: Pos mi jefe hacía antes, muy allá, durmientes. LM: Durmientes. AG: Durmientes, madera pues, madera tecolacha(??), con la hacha. A eso, pues no había de otra… LM: ¿Para las vías del tren? AG: Ándele, ándele. LM: ¿Sí? AG: Para las vías del tren, ey. Más madera así vigas, era lo único, lo único trabajo y nosotros así empezamos también. Él nos enseñó a hacer madera con la hacha. Y pues ese era onde sacaba uno su vida antes, sardinero, también fue mi padre a tumbar pinos con sardina. LM: ¿Cómo se llamó su papá? AG: Pedro González. LM: Y, ¿su mamá? AG: Romero, Petra Flores. LM: ¿De dónde eran ellos? AG: Mi padre, pos nos decía, que él había nacido aquí en el, ¿cómo se llama? 2do: Te habla mi [p]apá. AG: ¿Cómo se llama aquí oiga pal lado de, adelante de Sombrerete? LM: ¿Cómo esta? AG: El Calabazar. LM: ¿El Calabazar? AG: Ahí nació mi padre. Y mi madre, pos, ¿no te acuerdas? 2do: No. 3ra: No, en El Nayar, en El Nayar, ella. AG: ¿Ella del [El] Nayar? LM: Del El Nayar. 2do: Sí. 3 ra: Su mamá de él. LM: Muy bien. LM: ¿Cuántos fueron ustedes de familia?, ¿cuántos fueron de familia? AG: ¿Nosotros?, ¿de mi padre? LM: Ajá. AG: Pues ahora verá. Mire, el primero fue Ángela, uno, Ángela y luego Gregorio. Gregorio, Juanito, Anselma. LM: Anselma. AG: Anselma, Teodora, otra hermana. Teodora y luego Antonio, Antonio, ¿quién más? Genoveva y luego yo. Fuimos muchotes. LM: ¿Sí? AG: Luego yo. LM: Ocho con usted. AG: Ocho, espérese, todavía no. Ocho conmigo, ahora verá. Luego Rodriga, Juana, Abel, Alcaria, nomás, nomás, sí. LM: Doce. AG: Doce de familia. LM: Y usted fue el número ocho. AG: Sí. LM: El ocho, de los más grandes. AG: Sí, oiga. LM: Pos bueno, muy bien. Así que a eso se dedicaba su papá, ahí a la… AG: Sí, pues hacía maderita y pues nosotros le seguimos igual, igual su ejemplo, ya ve sigue uno el ejemplo de su padre. LM: ¿Fue a la escuela, don Agustín? AG: Pues muy poco, oiga. Nos apedreaban, el que iba, estábanos [estábamos] en El Salto en ese entonces. Y pues no, más bien nos hicieron correr de la escuela. Sí, nos apedreaban pero duro, pedradonas que nos echaban, ya, pues llegábanos llorando y pues: “Ya no queremos ir”. Y poquito fui a la escuela yo. Sí fui el más bien, pos escribo mi nombre. Porque lo aprendí acá solo, solo, sí. LM: ¿Sabe leer? AG: Pos poquito, oiga, poquito. LM: Poquito. AG: Pa decir la verdad poquito. LM: Y, ¿de qué edad empezó a ayudarle a su papá? AG: No, pos de chiquito, oiga, de chiquito. Más o menos, él me compró una hachita, una hachita chiquita y como de unos ocho o nueve años. Fíjate, empecé yo a quitarle la cáscara a los árboles. (risas) Pelaba pilotitos así, de veinticinco pies, sí. Desde entonces le empecé… Le dejaba una ramita a mi padre, unas ramitas pa que volteara. Y luego chiquillo, chiquillo, el pilotito que, se llamaban pilotos. Sí, muy chico, muy chico empecé yo a navegar. LM: Cuénteme un poquito, ¿cómo es ese lugar el Mil Diez, cómo es?, ¿cómo es el lugar dónde usted nació? AG: Bueno, el Mil Diez, ¿no conoce bien, verdad?, ahí. LM: Poquito, pero… AG: Pues mire, hasta allí el Mil Diez, se llama el Mil Diez porque hasta allí llegó la vía. Qu[i]ere decir, que los kilómetros, o, ¿qué sería? LM: Yo creo. AG: Hasta allí llegó la vía y por eso le pusieron el Mil Diez. Ah, pues es el kilómetro, ¿verdad?, mil diez, el kilómetro, sí. Pues hasta allí llegó. LM: ¿Hay río? AG: Sí, hay un arroyo. Un arroyo que siempre lleva agua, ahí. LM: ¿En la sierra están meramente en el corazón de la sierra? AG: Sí, más o menos sí, en un lado de El Salto. Y tiene madera y ahí sierra, pinos, sí. Y tiene un, ahorita hay un aserradero, en ese entonces que yo nací allí pues no había nada, yo creo, oiga. Más de pilas de durmientes, porque sí, sí le digo que llegaba el tren hasta ahí nomás y de ahí se regresaba. LM: ¿Vive mucha gente por ahí? AG: Pues más o menos, ahorita sí más o menos, pero en ese entonces no, oiga. Unos tres, cuatro de (ininteligible) y como ahí acarreaban la madera, ¿verdá?, sería animalitos, no sé decirle cómo. Yo estaba muy chico ahí entonces, muy chico. Y empecé a crecer y fue cuando ya pues se salió mi papá de todos modos de allí y a hacer madera de la sierra y todo eso. LM: ¿Cuál fue su primer trabajo de paga? AG: Pues ese, la maderita. LM: La madera. AG: Hacíanos [hacíamos] postes, durmientes y de ahí haga de cuenta yo empecé a agarrar así centavitos, que ya crecimos y seguimos en la madera, ya delante no había seguro, no, nunca tuvimos nada de eso, nunca, nosotros pues. LM: Claro. AG: Y ya le digo, pos así yo nací allí en el Mil Diez. Pero como le digo, pues no vivíamos más de puras, en ese entonces puras pilas de durmientes, que hacía la gente. LM: ¿Se acuerda cuánto le pagaban? AG: Bueno, no, no me acuerdo. Entonces mi [p]apá era el que trabajaba ahí, él era el que hacía. Nosotros hasta después ya cuando más grandecitos, no me acuerdo cuál. Quién sabe cuánto le darían a mi apá cuando yo le ayudé a hacer los pilotitos, a hacer pilotes. No sé lo que le darían a él porque pos yo, hacía unos dos, tres y él era el que cobraba. LM: Oiga, don Agustín, cuénteme, cómo fue que se metió en eso de los braceros usted. AG: A le verá, pues supimos. Ya ve que se llega el rumor, [es]taba precisamente yo en El Salto, no en el Mil Diez, en El Salto viviendo, ahí en un ladito y ya nos dijeron: “Oye, [es]tan contratando y pos, dicen que se gana mucho dinero”. (risas) Y pues así fue la cosa, oiga, entonces ya nos venimos aquí y nos contrataron. LM: ¿Se vino solo usted o con quién se vino? AG: Pos es un hermano el que me decía y bueno, un año sí estuvimos juntos yo y él, por allá esta. Él ahora vive en la colonia, ¿cómo se llama?, esa, donde… 3ra: Domingo Rivera. AG: Domingo Rivera, ándele, allá vive él. Y él fue el que me, me dijo: “Vamos”, dice, “vamos a ver cómo nos va”. Pos nos fuimos, fuimos. LM: ¿Cómo era que los contrataba aquí?, ¿qué les pedían o qué tenían que traer? AG: Pos ahí lo verá, nos pedían la acta de nacimiento y luego pos como era en Chihuahua, todo nos preguntaban, oiga. Teníamos que llevar la acta de nacimiento y nos preguntaron dónde nacimos, también porque ahí en Chihuahua se quedaban pos en todas partes admiradas, de que [d]onde había nacido, fue lo que me preguntaban a mí. (risas) Y se ríen las secretarias, oiga, dije yo: “¿Cómo va a ser el Mil Diez?”. “Sí”, le dije, “es un ranchito chiquito, hasta ahí llegó la vía y por eso le pusieron el Mil Diez. El kilómetro mil diez”. Y ya le digo, así nos fuimos, fuimos la primer vez yo y mi hermano; trabajamos juntos en Pecos, creo que estuvimos. LM: Pecos. AG: En Pecos, Texas. LM: ¿Ahí en el algodón o qué? AG: Sí, ahí en el algodón, ande, un sufrimiento tremendo, pues es que no sabe de uno piscar. LM: Era difícil. AG: Sí, la dolencia de cintura y todo eso, puro navegar y después me tocó en Dell City. LM: En Texas. AG: Sí, como unos tres años. LM: Vamos a regresarnos cuando se vino de El Salto aquí a Durango, ¿lo apuntaron en alguna lista?, o, ¿cómo fue?, ¿a dónde se fue? AG: Ah, sí, sí. En una lista nos, cuando nos echaron de aquí de Durango a Chihuahua, en una lista. LM: ¿En qué se fueron a Chihuahua? AG: En autobuses, oiga, nos echaban en autobuses. Sí, en autobuses y llegábanos y de ahí nos echaban en el tren. LM: ¿Cómo era ese lugar donde llegó en Chihuahua? Ahí el centro de contratación, ¿cómo era?, ¿se acuerda? AG: Pos era junto a la vía, oiga. Ahí nos arrimaban junto a la vía del tren. LM: ¿Estaba grande el lugar? AG: Pos más o menos, sí. Pues había muchísima gente, mucha gente. Y a veces hasta la mataban los pobrecitos porque el ansia, a veces ya, llevábamos poquito dinero y no nos aguantaba pa cuando nos, todo lo que nos tenían allí. LM: ¿Cuánto lo tuvieron ahí? AG: Pos a veces nos tenían hasta los quince, veintidós días, oiga, sí. Con hambre a veces, hambre y no nos tocaba salir. Y pos salíanos por ahí a ver, a partir leña, para poder sacar pa una tortillita y aguantar, aguantar ahí. LM: Y, ¿dónde se quedaban? AG: Ahí en la vía, oiga. Casi ponían los durmientes de cabecera, sin cobijas y sin nada. No, no, una cosa triste. LM: Es triste. AG: Sí, cómo no. Mucha gente, claro, yo no digo que todos, mucha gente a lo mejor tenía familiares, algún familiar ahí en Chihuahua y se podían ir a las casa, pero no, uno no. Ahí mero nos quedábanos [quedábamos] con un frío, pues a tiemble y tiemble. Y luego con hambre, no crea, fue cosa triste, sufrimos, más bien sufrir que gozar, sí. LM: Y, ¿qué es lo que lo hizo animarse a irse a Estados Unidos? AG: Pues es que no, no sabe uno, no sabe pos, la cosa que cuentan aquí, ¿verdad?, que mucho dinero y que mucho dinero. Y eso fue lo que nos animó, dijimos como que era, pues si nos va bien. Bueno a muchas personas sí les iba bien, oiga. Pa qué va a decir uno que a todos, a mucho sí se socorrían, ganaban su dinerito y allá donde estaba pues lo hacían más o menos. Hasta eso, como le digo, allá dentro pos pa qué se queja uno. Pos sí nos tenían las estufitas y todo onde andábamos piscando, nos pagaban nostro [nuestro] dinerito, lo poco o mucho que ganábamos y ya comprábamos nosotros nostra comidita para hacernos nosotros mismos allá. LM: Oiga, don Agustín y luego ya de que estaban ahí quince días, que les hablaron, ¿qué pasó ahí en el centro de Chihuahua? AG: Ah, pos ya nos echaron en las jaulas del tren. LM: Pero, ¿le hicieron unos exámenes antes? AG: Ah, sí. LM: ¿Cómo fueron los exámenes? AG: Pos ya lo verá, mal, nos encueraban de a tiro, a munchos [muchos] así, oiga. Y ahí vamos a vernos pos acá atrás, que a ver si no teníanos [teníamos] almorranas y acá adelante que no fuera uno así enfermo. No, no, no, así era, nomás era cosa que, no. LM: ¿Qué sentía usted? AG: No, no, pues mal y luego ahí iba mi hermano. Pues no crea, de todos modos poquillo respeto que sea, pos antes había un poco de respeto no, no podía uno ver sus parte de sus hermanos, ni uno quería que viera y pues no tiene remedio, ahí vamos cerquitas unos de otros, en hilera. LM: Fíjese. AG: Nomás viera, no, no, era cosa triste. Y que: “Ábrele y ábrele”, y qué, “recio”. Y no pues ahí nos espulgaban tanto atrás, de nostras partes, como acá adelante y ya cuando llegamos allá. LM: ¿Eran mexicanos o eran americanos los doctores? AG: No, no, los de aquí de Chihuahua, oiga, sí, sí. Ya onde hay americanos es onde pasamos ya a El Paso. LM: Claro. AG: ¿Verdá? Que también nos revisaron, ahí nos sacaron la sangre. LM: A ver. AG: Y ahí se desmayaban munchos. LM: ¿Sí?, oiga. AG: Sí, nos sacaron un tubote así, oiga, de sangre y yo pues me ponía triste, dije: “Yo voy a ser uno de los que me voy a desmayar”. Pues, sí, estaba flaco y débil y todo y sin comer que íbamos casi. LM: ¿En qué año fue cuando se contrató la primera vez? AG: Ya lo verá. ¿En qué año sería?, ¿tengo las micas oye?, ¿no? Pues si de todos modos en las micas se sabe. LM: Claro. AG: ¿Verdad? LM: O, ¿cuántos años tenía? AG: Ándele. LM: Si quiere ahorita vemos eso. AG: Sí, las micas, sí, las micas. LM: ¿Pero estaba joven usted? AG: Pues más o menos, sí, fuertón, sí, de unos… LM: ¿Por ahí del [19]50? AG: De treinta años, de unos treinta años más o menos, veintiocho o treinta años. LM: Y cuénteme, cómo fue el viaje de ahí de Chihuahua a El Paso. AG: No, no pues, en las jaulas esas del tren nos llevaron. LM: Fueron en el tren. AG: En el tren. Nos bajamos allá y ya nos metieron. LM: ¿Estaban limpias las jaulas? AG: No, no, qué limpias, estaban llenas de lodo, de vaca de donde se… LM: De estiércol. AG: Sí, de estiércol, estiércol, sí. Como tan grueso así, ahí íbamos sentaditos. LM: Como un pie. AG: Todos llenos de estiércol, de zurrada de vaca. LM: ¿Se le hacía triste eso? AG: Pues sí, fíjese. Ya voy ta muy mala, bueno, pero ya íbanos y que íbanos a ganar dinero de a dólar y no. Ya le digo y ya nos bajábanos, siempre llegábanos en la madrugada y ya entrábanos y a sacarnos la sangre. LM: Les sacaban sangre. AG: Sangre y nos sacaban sangre y de ahí nos pasaban a otra parte y ya nos contrataban a donde nos iban a llevar. LM: ¿Recuerda que le hayan inyectado?, ¿qué le hayan puesto alguna vacuna? AG: Sí, creo que sí, parece que me acuerdo que sí nos pusieron vacuna y no[s] registraban todo, pues que no fuéramos enfermos. LM: ¿Otra revisión? AG: Ey. LM: ¿De todo? AG: De todo. LM: ¿Igual, los desnudaban? AG: Ey, mal no crea, todo eso era triste pero ya íbanos, ya de ahí ya cuando nos contrataba la gente, entonces sí ya nos íbanos. El que iba sano y todo, y el que se desmayaba, pues ahí se quedaba un rato y pues sabría Dios hasta el otro día. LM: ¿Ahí los médicos sí eran americanos?, ¿eran gringos los médicos? AG: Sí, allá dentro allá sí, ya muy distinto ya otro modo. Porque hasta nos decían aquí en Chihuahua: “Bueno y, ¿qué van a hacer hombre, qué van a hacer, pos qué andan buscando ustedes hombre?”. Y aventándonos y llegaron a matar gente ahí, fíjese. LM: ¿Sí?, oiga. AG: Pero no era que los mataran, es que la pobrecita gente ya con la hambre se arrimaba a ver si le tocaba la salida y nada, se venían un montonón y les ponían los fusibles [fusiles]. Sí, de aquí yo me di cuenta que mataron como unos dos ahí. Pero casi se mataba uno solo, uno solo con la ansia. LM: ¿Eso fue en Chihuahua? AG: En Chihuahua. LM: Chihuahua. AG: En Chihuahua. Sí, una cosa triste, no crea. Ahí veíamos nosotros, no, ni nos arrimábamos. Ni nos arrimamos, no a qué se arrima uno, pero como le digo, uno mismo tenía la culpa porque pos se aventaba uno, los de atrás era así mire de gente, muchísima. LM: ¿Un hervidero de gente? AG: Sí, muchísima gente, una cosa triste. LM: Y luego, ¿de ahí a dónde lo mandaron, don Agustín? AG: Pues fue cuando le digo que estuvimos en Pecos. LM: En Pecos. AG: Sí, en Pecos nos, ya nos dieron trabajo ahí y después, que me acuerde yo fue en Dell City. Ahí mismo de… LM: ¿Les daban de comer? AG: Sí, pues, la comprábanos. La comprábamos nosotros con lo que ganaba, lo poquito que ganaba. LM: ¿Dónde vivían? AG: En, ¿cómo le nombran? Nos ponían este… LM: ¿Barracas? AG: Barracas, ándele, barracas, sí. Estufitas y todo eso tenían las barracas. LM: ¿Estaban más o menos amuebladas?, ¿estaban bien amuebladas? AG: Pues la camita nomás, no, no crea que muy bien, pero pues más o menos. Bueno, ya de ahí de todos modos cambió porque pues ya uno, si las arreglaba pos taba limpio y si no, pues sigún [según] el cristiano, ¿verdad? LM: Claro. AG: Teníanos que barrer nosotros la… Donde nos tocaba, ahí. LM: ¿A qué horas empezaban a trabajar? AG: No, pos nos levantaban temprano, sí, temprano y unos ni almorzaban, el que era flojito, no señor, nosotros hacíanos nostro lonche, en la noche, en la noche. Nostras tortillas de harina, con lo que le echábamos, ¿verdad? Y ya alistábanos en costalitos de los de harina de cinco kilos, ándele. En esos llevábanos nostro lonchecito y todos todos, y, como le digo, el que era flojito que no hacía su lonche, que llegaba cansado o alguna cosa. No, se iba mangoneando hasta con las sacas del algodón que piscaban, con los huaraches en la mano, no una cosa tremenda. Y fíjese, esos nos robaban el lonche a nosotros, allá onde andábamos en los files [fields] de algodón, varias veces nos robaban el lonche y pues, oiga, muertos de hambre nosotros sin tener culpa. Mire, navega uno mucho, el primer lonche que nos robaron, me dijo a mí el compañero, porque se junta uno con amigos, así que ve más o menos, le dije: “Oiga, ya me dio hambre Félix”. “Vaya y tráigase el lonche”. No, pobrecito, anduvo por allí y por acá y cuál lonche, dice: “No hay nada, Agustín”. “¿Cómo que no hay nada Félix?”. “Sí, no”, dice, “no hay nada”. “Ay, ¿ahora qué vamos a hacer?”, fíjese, “y tenemos que trabajar y sin comer”. LM: Claro. AG: No, pos puro navegar, oiga, navegar, navegar de a bola y pues se ríe uno y todo tiene uno presente. De lo que, ¿cómo hizo?, ¿cómo le… ¿Qué es lo que pasó y todo? Y nos reíamos más y era el miedo que llevábamos, porque mucha gente ya ve cómo es, que teníanos que trozar un plátano verde. Nos decían y era lo que nos asustaba más, nombre pero, ¿cómo van a hacer eso con nosotros? No, no era cierto, no era cierto, pura cosa de gente que… LM: Nomás vacilaban. AG: Sí, que platicaban así oían y no. No, no era cierto, hay que decir lo que es nomás, sí. LM: Pero sí le dieron buen susto. AG: Sí, cómo no, pues, ¿cuándo?, oiga. (risas) LM: ¿Cómo es ese trabajo del algodón, don Agustín?, ¿cómo lo hacían? AG: No, no pues, como nosotros no sabíamos, ¿verdad?, sabíamos, ni conocíanos [conocíamos] casi el algodón. No, pos son puros capullos, son puros capullos que tiene que irlo piscando, nomás no se pone listo y acaba usted con sus aquí mire, esto de aquí. LM: Lastimados los dedos. AG: Sí, donde pica el capullito, ¿verdad?, donde tiene que sacar usted el algodón del capullo y no, pues es cansado, es tremendo, tremendo. Que hay mucha gente que qué buena para piscar, oiga. Ahí con nosotros había como unos cuatro o cinco número uno ahí, chulada de hombres que trabajaban y a mí me decían, porque yo me descontrolaba, me desconsolaba: “No, no se desconsuele, ahorita le agarra al rato hombre, échele nomás ganas y verá”. Ah, no, pues sí, no es más de hacer la lucha uno y de que y póngase listo con esto todo me decían ellos, sus dedos que se los… LM: Ah, muchas gracias. 3ra: Tenga. LM: Gracias. AG: Se le acaban a uno sus dedos de aquí, mucha sangre. LM: Claro, gracias. AG: Sí, señor. LM: Es duro. AG: Ey. LM: ¿Cuántas libras piscaba usted? AG: No, pos al principio, llegué a, me acuerdo, creo doscientas, o trescientas libras. Era lo que sacaba en el día y otros no, quinientas, oiga, era lo que… Anda chulada, buenos pa piscar. LM: Parecían maquinas. AG: Nomás que hay mucho modo de piscar y claro le agarran a uno, mucha bola verde, para que pese el algodón, envuelta, se envuelve. LM: Se envuelve. AG: Los vía [veía] yo que le envolvían en el algodón la bola, sí, verde, verde y no, pues… LM: ¿A usted le tocó? AG: Como en todos los trabajos, ¿verdad? Y uno no, pues como no sabe. Dice pues a lo mejor nos van a correr, pues limpiecito el algodón, limpiecito y no le rinde mucho a uno. LM: ¿A cómo les pagaban, se acuerda? AG: No me acuerdo, oiga. No, no pues baratón, baratón, no crea, sacábanos poquito, no, yo pues, me acuerdo que sacaba poco, poco dinero. LM: ¿De cuánto le dieron su contrato?, ¿cuántos días? AG: Eran cuarenta y dos días me parece, sí, más de mes, más de mes, cuarenta y dos días. LM: Cuarenta y dos días. AG: Sí, contratos. LM: ¿Tenían mayordomo ahí? AG: Sí, sí había mayordomo, pues él era el que nos cuidaba. No, hasta eso ahí no, no hubo, porque yo me fijo que en otras partes hasta los golpean, pero no, ahí no, no, no. Lo que a mí me tocó yo no tengo que decir de, le digo que acá afuera era donde estaba el martirio con nosotros mismos, sí, nos aventábanos [aventábamos]. LM: ¿Cómo era?, Cuénteme todo eso. AG: Gente, pues gente de aquí así grandotes, mal encachados, nosotros no les decíamos nada. “¿Qué vienen a hacer acá ustedes?”. LM: ¿Los mismos mexicanos que vivían allá? AG: Y el gringo no, pues ellos, como no habla, habla a su manera, ¿verdad?, pues ni le entiende uno. Pero a señas, ya de perdida nos palmeaban y pues ellos. LM: ¿Se portaban bien? AG: Más o menos, sí. LM: Pero los otros. AG: No, cuidado acá los mismos de nosotros, somos duros, malos. Pues no, yo de algún gringo no, ni pa qué hablar. Buenas gentes, ¡qué va! Como le digo, pues ellos nomás se ríen con nosotros, y pues claro, en palmearnos nosotros sentíamos… LM: Se sentían bien. AG: Alegría. LM: Apoyo. AG: Apoyo con ellos, de los meros buenos, pos que son los gringos. Nosotros somos malos, no crea, algunos, bueno, no todos, ¿verdad?, pero sí habemos cristianos malos aquí entre nosotros, más malos que allá en Estados Unidos. LM: Sí, sí hay algunos. AG: ¿Verdad?, oiga. LM: Ajá. AG: Sí, hay de todo, gente mala, orgullosos. Siendo de los mismos hermanos de nosotros, sí, malos, malos. LM: Oiga, don Agustín y, ¿qué días trabajaban? AG: Pues nomás nos daban el puro domingo para el manda[d]o. El sábado nos llevaban, me acuerdo yo como al medio día, sí. LM: ¿Les pagaban en cheque o les pagaban en efectivo? AG: En efectivo, en efectivo, sí. Nos daban dólares, sí. LM: ¿Sumaban todas las pesadas o cómo? AG: Sí, ándele, sí. Iba usted con su bolsa y se la pesaban y ya le daban lo que pesaba más o menos. En la tarde, en la tarde, usted trabajaba todo desde temprano, todo el día, todo el día y el señor estaba checando ahí, ya le daban sus pesadas en la tarde. LM: ¿Usted también anotaba? AG: Sí, también, sí. Y ya lo que salía, pos no me acuerdo bien si nos pagaban todos los días o cada ocho días, los sábados. Pero más bien los sábados yo creo, sí. LM: Y ¿qué hacían con el dinero? AG: Pos no, pues a veces lo manda uno, poquito pa acá y su comidita. Y ya cuando va uno cerca, pues guarda para venirse pa traer algo, no crea que hacíanos gran cosa, no. LM: ¿Por qué?, ¿era muy poco el tiempo o por qué? AG: Sí, porque era poquito lo que nos llevaban. Muchos se quedaban, oiga. LM: ¿Sí? AG: Sí, como a mí me tocó quién sabe si a usted le tocaría conocer a un Pedrito Rojas, eran de aquí de Durango ellos, pero tenían sus tierras y todo eso de ahí de Guadalupe Victoria. Más o menos en el… Cuando fuimos, porque él también fue allá. Él fue con nosotros, taba más o menos de su edad. Ey, más o menos. LM: Mire. AG: Y ahorita está en Guadalajara. LM: En Guadalajara. AG: Pero él se quedó, él me decía, me decía Pedrito: “Quédese Tin”. Muy buen amigo, no agraviando. LM: Gracias. AG: Este: “Quédese, al cabo no crea que es trabajoso”. Porque yo sabía trabajar en el tractor ya, en el tractor, desvarar y todo eso. “Fíjese, nos quedamos a trabajar en eso”. “No, Pedrito, yo ya me voy”. Y él se quedó allá. Y duraban más tiempo, quizás ahí les arreglaban los patrones, ¿verdad?, para que se quedaran, pero nosotros nos veníamos porque no se aguantaba el frío, oiga y un aire y frío de a bola. “No, no”, dice, “a ver cómo le hacemos”, me decía Pedrito, él quería que me quedara de compañero con él. LM: ¿Los mismos patrones les decían?, o, ¿cómo le hacían? AG: Pues uno les decía: “Yo quero [quiero] quedarme”, ¿verdad? Y es, pues agarran más confianza y a veces hasta por eso les arreglan, ¿verdad?, según la confianza que tenga usted con el patrón y que lo vean que es trabajador algunos hasta le arreglan sus papeles para… LM: Así le arreglan. AG: Ey. LM: ¿Alguna vez se quedó usted? AG: No. LM: Después de su contrato. AG: No, no, pues nomás esa vez me hacía la lucha él, de que nos quedáranos después del contrato. No, pues no, no quise, no quise, no quise. LM: ¿Y se vino de…? AG: Sí, pues se viene uno [a] navegar aquí también, a sufrirle a, en lo que hay. LM: Cuando se regresaba, ¿en qué trabajaba? AG: Pues, a veces de ayudante de albañil, a hacer mezcla, a veces de ayudante en los camiones y pos puras cosas que, pos onde lo ocupan a uno, oiga. LM: Y después, ¿se volvió a ir otra vez? AG: Sí, se iba uno, pues no lo trataban bien, pero seguía uno, le gustaba ver los centavitos, de todos modos es un centavos más allá lejos, sí. LM: De cualquier manera… AG: Sí, de cualquier manera. Como sea le va mejor a la gente que aquí, pues ya ve aquí se gana uno, como yo ahorita, ya si me pusiera a trabajar o que me ponga a trabajar de velador, me quieren pagar hasta $300 pesos, $400. LM: A la semana. AG: A la semana, fíjese. Bueno, como ahorita yo y la señora ya estamos solos, ya aquí ya como quien dice nomás estamos cuidando a nostros hijos, porque tenemos dos allá en el otro lado, allá están. LM: ¿Dónde están sus hijos? AG: Ya tienen tiempo. LM: ¿En dónde? AG: Uno está en Los Ángeles y otros están allá en este, ¿cómo se llama?, onde nieva mucho, oiga. LM: Chicago. AG: Dice que nieva muchísimo por allá. LM: Sí, pues yo creo por allá. Muy bien, ¿en qué año se casó usted, don Agustín? AG: En el, ahora verá, pues me casé chico, porque esta es la segunda mujer. (risas) Y yo me casé como de quince años, oiga. LM: Oiga, muy joven. AG: ¿En qué año sería? LM: Pues si nació el [19]28, ¿como el [19]43? AG: Sí, más o menos. Y eso a la fuerza, nos casamos oiga, a fuerza. LM: ¿Por qué? AG: Es que, nos decían, por este, ¿cómo le quero explicar yo la cosa esa?, éramos estos, teníanos que marchar. ¿Cómo les dice? LM: El servicio militar. AG: Ándele. Entonces nos decían, nos decían que iba a haber una bola negra y una blanca, que al que le tocara la negra se iba a ir a acá, quién sabe a dónde se los llevaron para allá al… LM: Al cuartel. AG: No, no, no, no, a las islas. LM: A las islas. AG: A las Islas Marías. LM: Válgame Dios. AG: Y andábamos bien asustados, y decían que el que estuviera casado podía salvarse, oiga, pos nos soltamos chiquillos. (risas) “Ay, no, pues hay que buscarnos una novia, no tiene remedio”. To[da]vía ni la podíamos mantener, pero pues, por lo asustados que andábanos que nos iban a llevar pa las Islas. Y última hora no, oiga, hasta nos dieron nuestra cartillita y todo. LM: Ni se los llevaron, pero usted ya se había casado. AG: Sí, ya casado. (risas) Ey, no, no pues es una historia la de uno, oiga. LM: Sí, cómo no. AG: Sí. LM: Y, ¿cuántos hijos tuvo? AG: Pues son José, Teodoro, Guadalupe, Naty, cuatro, cinco, como cinco o seis. LM: Como cinco. AG: Ey. LM: Cuando andaba de bracero, les mandaba dinero, ¿verdad? AG: Sí, a la señora, sí, le mandaba dinerito. LM: Y, ¿qué lo hacía volverse a ir? AG: Pos es lo que le digo que anda uno ahí. No, nos fuimos varias veces, oiga, nomás que a veces tira uno las micas, los papeles que le dan. Pues yo lo único que conservé fue las dos miquitas estas. LM: Ah, qué bien, ahorita me las enseña, sí, ahorita que acabemos. AG: Sí, ándele. LM: Muy bien, ¿siempre se contrató en Chihuahua? AG: En Chihuahua. LM: ¿Siempre entró por Chihuahua? AG: Por Chihuahua. Pero onde nos contrataban ya para entrar, pal trabajo era adentro de Ciudad Juárez, al otro lado. LM: En El Paso. AG: Sí, al otro lado de… LM: Y, ¿siempre había que hacer los mismos exámenes? AG: Todo, oiga, todo lo que nos hacían. LM: Ya se acostumbraba después. AG: Pos sí, ya sabía uno lo que tenían que hacer. (risas) LM: Ya vacilaban ahí con sus compañeros. AG: Sí, no, no, pues ya después ya casi ni vergüenza le daba a uno. No, si lo malo es la primer vez que… Dice: “Pero cómo me voy a encuerar yo aquí, a quitarse la camisa, el pantalón y todo”. De a tiro, de a tiro, porque quería dejar uno sus calzoncitos, nombre pa abajo, vamos. LM: ¿Hasta regañados? AG: Y ahí vamos todo[s] en hilerita, oiga. LM: No, no, está bien. AG: Todos así en hilera, oiga. Ande, cientos de cristianos encuerados. No, una cosa que, la primer vez hasta va uno hasta temblando, oiga. Sí, asustado, sí, ¿qué nos van a hacer?, pues es que, ¿qué sabe uno?, oiga. LM: No. AG: Ya llega con las mujeres, ahí, los doctores, las doctoras serán y, ya: “Voltéate”. Y uno mismo a abrirse sus partes. Y: “Voltéate ahora al otro”. No, nomás viera. No, ha de ser una cosa. LM: ¿A dónde lo mandaron en su segundo contrato, don Agustín?, ¿dónde le tocó? AG: En Dell City. LM: ¿Era en Texas o en…? AG: Texas. LM: Texas, también. Y al algodón también. AG: También al algodón, puro navegar oiga. LM: ¿Era más grande ese rancho, o era más pequeño? AG: Dell City pues, más grandecito que acá. LM: Que Pecos. AG: Sí. LM: ¿Ahí también se hacían de comer ustedes? AG: También sí, nosotros mismos hacíanos nuestra comidita allá. Sí le digo, los sábados, nos llevaban a veces los sábados en la tarde, nos llevaban a que trajéranos nostra mercanciita, lo que comprábanos, lo que traíanos en autobuses nos llevaban y nos traiban [traían]. Muy bien, muy bien, que nos, ahí lo que le digo, ahí dentro era otra, otro tiro, otra clase. “Ándele, vengan pa que se traigan su mandadito”. Nos esperaban hasta que el último compraba ya su mandado. LM: ¿Les gustaba ir al pueblo? AG: Sí, cómo no, pues estaba bonito ahí, en las tiendas y todo. Ahí ya compraba uno lo que le hacía falta, su camisita o su pantalón. Pues muy bien, muy bien. LM: ¿Cómo se portaban los americanos de ahí del pueblo? AG: Pues más o menos bien. Le digo que, porque hay también como en, ahí en Pecos, pues había también mexicanos, y le digo que, pos son los que nos vieron más feo que los gringos, sí. Sí, más pues, más nos las tanteábamos que no, no nos vían como los gringos. La gente, bien, muy bien, había gente así americana que hasta nos envitaban [invitaban] así a alguna creencia de los que ellos tienen, iban y nos llevaban así los domingos, sí. LM: Los llevaban a los cultos. AG: Ándele, sí. Sí, pues si íbanos nosotros, ¿pos qué? LM: ¿Cómo eran o qué? AG: Pues puras mujeres gringas, gringos y revueltos, mexicanos también. LM: ¿Les daban de comer? AG: Sí, y pos nos abrían las capillas, quién sabe qué serían, sí, como capillas. LM: ¿Qué es lo que le gustaba de los pueblos de allá? AG: No, no, pues el… Muy distintos a los de aquí, oiga, sí. Muchas cosas, muy bonitos pues a comparación de aquí. LM: ¿Se metían a veces a algún restaurante, alguna cantina por ahí? AG: Sí, pues, a los restaurantes. No cantinas hasta eso, pues lleva uno miedo de todos modos pos que le den un golpe o, ya ve que no falta. No, a restaurantes a comernos algún refresquito así, ey, muy distinto, muy bien. Y en las tiendas, a comprar nuestros… LM: ¿Algunos hablaban español, de los gringos? AG: Sí, había gringos que sí hablaban así español. Y ya es, nos decía así palabras a… LM: A las señas. AG: Mucho, mucho trabajo, trabajando nos decían las señas, andamos trabajando, qué bien. LM: Mire qué bien. ¿Alguna ocasión le tocó ver algún cónsul mexicano que los fuera a visitar allá al campo? AG: No, oiga no, no me acuerdo. No, no me acuerdo, a lo mejor sí iban gente así, pero no, no. Es que no, no pone uno cuidado, ¿verdad?, si alguna cosa. LM: ¿Ustedes andaban muy ocupados? ¿La Migración no llegó a ir allá a los ranchos? AG: No, La Migra no, nada, nada. No, pues como íbanos contratados, ¿verdá? No, pues yo creo que ni se arriman así. Yendo uno contratado pues, porque lleva uno su, ¿será mica, o qué es, sí verdad? LM: Sí, sus documentos. AG: El documento, y bien, no, no crea que no, nos trataron mal, no. Que nos trataron mal, o que viéramos alguna cosa, no, nada de eso. LM: Su tercer contrato, ¿dónde fue? ¿Su tercer contrato? AG: Pos yo digo ahí mismo fue. LM: Ahí mismo. AG: Sí. LM: ¿Siempre trabajó en el algodón? AG: Sí, en el algodón y de veces nos tocaba así piscar naranja también. Según, desahijar. LM: ¿Qué desahijaban? AG: Pues sí, lo que había en el limón también, a piscar limón, así varias cosas que le ponen a uno. LM: ¿A California nunca fue? AG: No, no, no. Mi hermano sí le tocó ir a California. No, yo todo para acá, pa este lado. Pues se acostumbra uno, se acostumbra uno. LM: ¿Cómo se llevaban entre los mismos mexicanos, los braceros? AG: Pues más o menos, oiga. Pues este, pero a gusto, contentos, teníamos que cuidarnos unos con otros y vernos, nos la llevábamos más o menos. Bueno, porque claro, digo yo, si había unos cincuenta braceros en una barraca, eran conocidos, ¿vedá? Nos empezábamos a conocer, amigos y todo. A mí me tocó estar con unos señores de aquí de Guillermo Prieto, está de aquel lado de con los menones, ¿cómo se llama? LM: Nuevo Ideal. AG: Nuevo Ideal, ándele. Y ya me tocó, muy gentes los señores de ahí, hasta nos tocó que se nos murió un compañero de los que… LM: ¿Sí?, oiga… AG: Que estábamos en la barraca. Cayó el pobrecito, piscando, ¿verdad? Ahí en el field y se nos murió. Muy buena gente, muy buena persona. LM: ¿Cómo fue, de repente? AG: De repente. Sería el sol o le pegaría algo, ya cuando [nos] acordamos, ya estaba… No, pues nos asustamos todos, ahí estábamos, nos juntamos todos, ya nos llevaron. Pues lo mandaron pa acá. LM: Lo mandaron. AG: Sí, lo mandaron pa acá, aquí a Guillermo Prieto. Fue lo único que me, sentíamos tristeza nosotros que nos fuera a pasar lo mismo, ahí. LM: ¿Lo velaron ahí tantito o algo? AG: Pues nomás nos dejaron en cuanto ya lo recogió La Migra, qué será, los meros jefes de allá. LM: De ahí del rancho. AG: Los del rancho y ya los mandaron, nomás un rato, sí, y: “Váyanse a trabajar”. LM: Ahí el trabajo seguía. AG: Sí, pues nosotros teníamos que regresarnos al field. LM: Y, ¿les dijeron después de qué se había muerto, les dieron alguna explicación? AG: Pues a los familiares, oiga. A los familiares de él yo creo que sí. LM: Claro. AG: Porque eran como uno[s] tres o cuatro hermanos. LM: ¿Sabe usted si, si les dieron algún dinero, alguna pensión? AG: No, ¿pa qué voa [voy a] decirle?, ¿pa qué echa uno mentiras de que no nos dimos cuenta?, a lo mejor sí les dieron. Bueno, digo yo que a lo mejor sí, a lo mejor no. LM: Pues esperemos que sí, así es. Oiga, don Agustín, y, ¿cuáles eran las quejas?, ¿habían algunas quejas entre los compañeros? AG: Pos no, mientras yo anduve viera que no. LM: ¿No? AG: No, no que se quejaran así de algo así mal, es lo que le digo, ¿verdá? Es lo que le digo que, claro, si yo hubiera visto algo que golpearan o trataran mal algún de los de nosotros, no, no, no había queja, no había. Bueno, pero en lo que yo me tocó andar y ver, no. No porque, es lo que le digo, es que allí trabajaba uno lo que podía, pero uno mismo se exigía, no tenían para qué golpearlos, digo yo. No, por eso son las quejas que a veces dice uno: “Oiga, pues me tratan mal”. Pues si nomás esa, esa cosa que cuando va uno aquí en el camino que pues siente uno triste, que lo encueren y la sangre que le sacan, porque sí, ya le digo, de a bola sangre. No, pobrecitos, caiban [caían] de ancho, los que no aguantaban. LM: ¿Se desmayaban? AG: Se desmayaban y aventar espuma y ande. Sí, no, y uno nomás pensando, otros todos en hilerita, ya es lo último que le hacen a uno oiga, ya la sangre, ya de ahí sale usted a que lo contratan y vámonos. LM: A firmar el contrato. ¿Le explicaron a usted su contrato? Cuando lo firmó, ¿le dijeron: “Vas a ganar tanto”? AG: No, viera que no, no nos dijeron nada. Nomás nos contrataban y vamos: “Necesito veinte o treinta o cincuenta”. Y nos echaban en las, de ahí sí ya nos echan en, ¿cómo se llama? LM: En autobuses. AG: No, no. LM: Trailas [trailers]. AG: Trailas, en trailas. LM: También. AG: Ey, trailas, pero limpias. Limpias ya, es lo que le digo, ya adentro, ya es otro, ya, ya no hay, no, no, sí ahí de Ciudad Juárez pa acá es onde está la, aquí con nosotros una cosa horrible. No, no allá, limpiecitas las trailas, limpias, ya nos llevaban porque pues se llena, oiga, ahí se llena de gente de bola, los surcos muy largos de algodón. LM: ¿Estaban muy largos? AG: Sí. LM: Platíqueme, platíqueme un día de trabajo normal desde que se levantaba hasta que se acostaba. AG: No, pues a veces se levantaba uno, pues yo tanteo que llegaban de esas veces que, como a las cinco de la mañana. A esas horas llegaba la traila pitando. Si tantito se quedaba usted dormido, ahí se quedaba, no trabajaba, ahí lo dejaban y vámonos a trabajar. Empezábamos, nomás llegaba la traila a la orilla del field de la labor del algodón y pa abajo todos y luego luego, a colgar su bolsita del lonche, y a bajarsele de su saca. LM: La saca. ¿Dónde se la colgaban? AG: Y vámonos. Era jalarle, llegaba a medio día, ya se comía su comidita, su refresquito que llevaba y a jalarle, a jalarle. De todos modos no crea que, allá no había descanso, que se fuera usted a una sombrita o algo, no, no, no, no, todo el día a jalarle. Allá en la tarde ya cuando ordenaba el patrón, ¿vedá? El que mandaba allí la gente: “Ya muchachos, ya vámonos, ya”. Empezaban a arrimarse, media saca, la saca entera, o poquito o mucho y ya era lo último. Ya hasta como a las seis, oiga, de las cinco a las seis, ya tarde, todo el día. LM: Doce, trece horas. AG: Jalarle duro, duro, y ya le digo, nos llevaban. LM: Y luego llegaban y… AG: Bueno, llegaba uno cansadote, oiga. Y lavarnos las manos, a hacer pues la tortilla de harina, a amasar la harinita y hacer la tortilla. Bueno, si yo y usted [es]tábamos de compañeros dos, tres, a uno le tocaba guisar la comida, al otro hacer las tortillas y así, así a gusto, a gusto. Cada quien hacíanos nostra [nuestra] comidita y muchos no. Llegamos bien cansados y casi ni cenaban, ni almorzaban, si no hacían su lonche. (risas) LM: Pues no aguantaban. Y, ¿qué platicaban antes de acostarse? AG: No, no, pues a veces, oiga, a veces ni le alcanzaba a uno, pues sí, platicar ahí mientras usted guisaba las papitas, la carnita si llevaba, los frijolitos, ya se ponía uno a platicar de: “¿Cómo se tanteó ora?. ¿Viene cansa[d]o?”. O alguna cosa así. No, pues cómo no va a venir uno cansado, pues si está duro el trabajo. (risas) Y ahora, ¿qué hacemos?, lavarse uno sus manitas luego luego para hacer la… LM: Llegar a cocinar, ¿era duro cocinar? AG: Sí, duro, durísimo, duro. Poner el cafecito y pues sí en la tarde café, cafecito y ya nos poníanos en nuestra mesita. Órale, vamos a cenar, de aquí a un rato hacemos el lonche, era lo que decía uno. LM: Claro. ¿Salían a veces a fuera ahí a platicar con los demás o qué? AG: Pos se arrimaban los demás ahí: “¿Cómo andan muchachos?”. “Pues más o menos ahí cansadones”. Y: “¿Cómo les ha ido?, ¿cómo se sienten?”. “Pues ahí más o menos”. Y otros no, me fijaba yo porque sí hay de todo. Cenaban y se ponían que a jugar a los dados, baraja, o que a ganarse ahí unos con otros sus centavos, sí. LM: Y habían unos que perdían, yo creo. AG: Que perdían, oiga. Y así trabajando, no, no, no, no hay gente así viciosa, gente viciosa que le gusta la baraja, los dados. No sé qué tanto les oía yo ahí que jugaban en las mesas, mantenían sus mesitas ahí. LM: Oiga, don Agustín y, ¿y de novias? AG: No, pues eso, pos sí llegaban ahí de novias, pero no, no, pos muy mal, muy feo, (risas) muy mal, muy mal. Pa pues una pa cincuenta, no, pa qué oiga, no. Necesitaba estar muy deseoso el cristiano. (risas) Pues póngale que sí aguante uno, pero pos de todos modos los contratos sí los aguanta uno allá, hay veces que se los avienta usted sin, ¿verdá? Como así, pa qué, cuánto y más allá, no, no. Sí, de eso sí, llegaban las novias. LM: Y, ¿eran americanas? AG: Pues americanas y negras, cuarteronas, sí. LM: Bien. AG: En sus carros, sí. LM: En sus carros. AG: Sí, pero no, yo pa qué, no es que se asuste uno, a mí no me gustó eso. No, porque va y agarra cola la gente. Veinte, treinta, el humor fíjese, feo y así es pa allá, mucha gente pues sí, sí lo hacen, sí. LM: De los lugares donde estuvo, ¿cuál fue el que le gustó más? AG: Pos va uno de distintas partes, ¿vedá? Es bonito, es bonito. Donde quiera que sea allá tratando de meterse uno pa dentro de Estados Unidos. Pero claro, son chiquitos, pueblos chicos, ¿verdad? Bonito como en vez, una cosa grande, Chicago y todo eso, pos muy bonito. LM: Claro. AG: Ey, no pos sí, de todos modos a mí me gustaron las partes esas, pos sí anduvimos a gusto en las partes que anduve, gracias a Dios. LM: ¿Alguna vez le tocó estar allá para un 16 de Septiembre? AG: No, viera que no. LM: ¿O para Navidad? AG: Pos nos veníanos, eh, fíjese. ¿En qué tiempo nos iríanos? Nos veníanos siempre para tantito antes del día 12 de diciembre. LM: ¿Siempre se venían para esa fecha? AG: Porque me acuerdo yo que llegábanos, y a los cuantos días ya, hacían aquí la fiesta ahí en la explanada. LM: Ajá, de la Virgen. AG: De la Virgen. LM: O sea que pasaba Navidad aquí con la familia. AG: Sí, ándele. Sí, para ese tiempo nos veníanos, porque decía toda la gente y sí sabía pero mucho frío, oiga, unos airones. LM: Hacía frío. AG: Ande. LM: Y eso que usted es de la sierra, está acostumbrado al frío. AG: Ey, al frío, pero no, allá está… No puede usted piscar. LM: Y, ¿los patrones les daban chamarras o guantes o algo? AG: No, no, nada, allí se ponía usted lo que compraba, sí compraba su chamarrita o lo que llevara. LM: Y si no… AG: No, no, no, nada de eso, nada. Bueno, quen sabe ya, como le digo, después, ¿vedad?, de que nos tocaba cumplir el contrato, que nos, que se quisiera quedar uno, a lo mejor sí le daban pa los tractores, ¿verdad?, chamarras. Que se cubriera del frío. LM: Las barracas, ¿tenían calefacción? AG: Sí, tenían pues todo. LM: Calentones. AG: Sí, calentones. LM: ¿Ventiladores? AG: Pa hacer, las estufas. LM: Estufas. AG: Estufas, estufas, sí. LM: Oiga, don Agustín, y, ¿le tocó estar allá para algún cumpleaños suyo o de algún compañero? AG: No, no viera que no. LM: ¿No celebraban los cumpleaños? AG: Pues, sí se podía, pero a veces hasta se le pasaba a uno, ni sabía uno si cumplió años. No, por andar en el trabajito y pues no, de todos modos viviendo uno así, pues va uno muy humilde, pues nomás trabajar. Sí hay gente que le gusta así como no le digo de baraja y jugar y tomar, que se van a las cantinas. No, nosotros gracias a Dios que no, no, no. Pues lo poquito que gana uno, pues guardarlo pa ver qué, es el modo que hace, y otros no, a las cantinas, vámonos. LM: A echar. AG: Ey, y orilla a uno. Sí ha de haber habido gente que hasta peleó y lo echaron al bote allá y todo. LM: ¿Nunca se enteró usted de algo de eso? AG: No, no. LM: ¿Qué se hayan peleado algunos por allá? AG: No, no, no, no supimos nosotros de eso, los de nosotros no. Pero pos sí tanteo yo que, porque sí hay gente ladina oiga, de la de nosotros, landinicima, que se iba a las cantinas allá con las muchachas a bailar. LM: Don Agustín, cuando se regresó a México, que ya no pensó en irse otra vez para allá, ¿en qué trabajó aquí? AG: Como le digo, pues a veces lo ocupan a uno ahí, como aquí. Bueno, mientras hubo trabajo en la sierra, lo hacíanos, lo hacíanos. Hacer cuártaseles(??), hacer limpia pues de cuártaseles. Hacer aprovechamientos, aprovechamiento. Con motosierra, con lo que pueda uno, ¿vedad? Y a veces pues se viene como aquí, y pues ya busca uno el trabajito, ahí lo ocupan ahí de peón, o de lo que sea, de hacer la mezcla, arrimar el ladrillito al maestro. Y así se la lleva uno, no crea que… LM: ¿No le daban ganas a veces de regresar a Estados Unidos? AG: Pos bueno, mire, como de mojado, no, no, no me gustó, de mojado no, no, ni lo mande Dios. No pensaba yo, no pues, a la mejor se muere uno por ahí, nunca es igual a contratado a mojado, no, pues piensa uno mucho y ya se le baja uno de no ir. LM: ¿Qué extrañaba de por allá? AG: Pues no crea, sí extraña uno el dinero que gana uno más, sí. Gana uno más dinerito, sí, y come mejor. LM: Y se come mejor. AG: Que aquí, sí. LM: Más bien. AG: Se come mejor. Es que se le figura que con el dinero que gana uno allá compra más y compra mejor, pero no, es la misma, es la misma. (risas) ¿Verdad que es la misma? Ey, es la misma. Y no, nosotros nos, comíamos reagusto y nos llevábanos bastante que comer, queso, salchichas y blanquillos y todo eso. Tortillas hechas de harina también había, pero nosotros las hacíanos. Yo llevaba un compañero y mi hermano también sabe hacerlas muy bien, las tortillas de harina. LM: ¿Allá se enseñaron? AG: No señor, aquí, desde aquí, de lo que navega uno ahí en la sierra a veces. Como ahí donde le digo que empezamos a trabajar nosotros de achieros, de sardineros, de todo eso, tienen que llevar uno su harinita para hacer todo. De que tortillas de harina, todo eso así. LM: Todo. AG: Cuece uno sus frijolitos y sus patole y todo eso. LM: Uno que otro conejo por ahí. AG: Ándele el que sale el conejo y venados. LM: Venados. AG: Venados, sí más antes ya vería pues cargaba el riflito uno y no había tanta vigilancia como… No, ahora Dios lo libre que lo lleguen a agarrar a uno con alguna cosita de esas y antes no, cargaba usted su riflitos 22 y mataba el venadito y se lo comía el, el cócono y todo eso, sí. LM: Cócono, ¿había cócono salvaje? AG: Sí, y hay muchísimos así. Aquí cerca, yo los v[e]ía porque como le digo, trabaja uno a veces en las trocas, ¿verdad?, se veían las parvadas de cóconos. LM: Mire. AG: Sí, no, es bonita la sierra también, es bonita. LM: Sí, cómo no. AG: Peor donde hay animalitos. LM: Así es, muy bien, pues, cuénteme, don Agustín, ¿qué siente usted cuando oye hablar de los braceros? AG: Bueno, pues más o menos, este, como, pues bueno, por un lado tristeza de lo que hicieron con nosotros y por otro lado, pues gusto, que se siente uno a gusto. LM: Son encontrados los… AG: Sí, las cosas que… LM: Así es. AG: Los pensamientos de, que se acuerda uno, cómo le jue, cómo lo trataron. LM: ¿Se siente usted orgulloso de haber sido bracero? AG: Sí, bueno, pues de trabajar de todos modos el saber trabajar en, no nomás aquí sino allá en Estados Unidos también, ir a trabajar, a prestar uno su trabajo allá como quera que sea. Porque pos de todos modos es una cosa güena [buena] para uno, ¿verdad? Bueno, la gente que piensa bien, ¿verdad? Sí, bueno, esos fueron a prestar sus trabajos allá a trabajar a sufrir o a gozar como quera que sea, pero ellos anduvieron trabajando allá, no nomás aquí. LM: ¿Adquirió usted experiencia en la vida con ese viaje? AG: Sí, cómo no, sí, cómo no, sí. LM: ¿Siente usted que el haber sido bracero cambió su vida de alguna forma? AG: Pues a lo mejor sí, oiga, a lo mejor sí, cómo no. Porque, pues sabe uno muchas cosas allá, y ve y de distintos trabajos de todo lo que tienen allá esdistinto a aquí, ya ve aquí muy poco trabajo. Pos puro trabajo tremendo, pues allá también, el algodón era el más duro, oiga. LM: El algodón. AG: El algodón, lo más, lo más duro. Y aquí pues, como le digo, allá, cualquier gente, cualquier gente… Bueno, no, no todos, pero el que trabaja allá de todos modos aprendieron a trabajar aquí. Y aquí no viene a trabajar ni un cuarto, yo creo que de lo que gana usted allá en Estados Unidos. Como quera que sea, allá es muy distinto. Y sí tiene que acordarse uno, cómo no, de… Me, volver otra vez a mi juventud, pues yo me iba otra vez pal norte, sí, que hubiera contratos. Fíjese que todavía me animaba yo, si hubiera contratos, con todo lo que nos pasó. LM: Todavía. AG: Todavía me animaría a ir a trabajar allá. LM: ¿Le gustaría que hubieran más contratos? AG: Pues bueno a lo mejor sí y todavía me animaría yo, oiga, a trabajar, a hacer lo que yo pudiera pues allá. LM: ¿Siente usted que fue bueno ese programa, que sí ayudó al mexicano? AG: Pues sí, cómo no, porque mucha gente se ha ayudado y se ayuda todavía, fíjese. Como quera que sea, a muchos pobrecitos les va mal, pero a muchos les ha ido muy bien, bien. LM: Claro. AG: Que ha cambiado su vida de ellos, de pobres a, pues algunos que sí, conservan bien su dinero, lo cuidan y tienen, se hacen vivir. Con una o dos vueltas que den pa allá, hay gente que se levanta muchísimo, ¿vedá? LM: Claro. AG: Fíjese. LM: Muy bien, muy bien, don Agustín. Pues quiero darle las gracias por haber compartido con nosotros sus experiencias. AG: No, pues igual, yo igualmente de qué, debe de tener uno, este, pos amistades, que es lo principal, hombre. LM: Claro. AG: No, pues aquí tiene su casa, para ahora ya supo aquí con nosotros, ya, (risas) ya lo que se ofrezca ahí. LM: No, muchas gracias. AG: Estamos a sus órdenes. LM: Igualmente, estamos a sus órdenes. AG: Qué bueno. LM: Con esto vamos a dar por terminada la entrevista. Muchas gracias, a nombre del Instituto de Historia Oral y en lo personal le doy las gracias por habernos recibido. AG: Ándele igualmente. Fin de la entrevista Original Format If the image is of an object, state the type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data Mini Disc Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 1:14:00 Bit Rate/Frequency Rate at which bits are transferred (i.e. 96 kbit/s would be FM quality audio) 24 bit 96 k File Name Identifier The identifier for the sound file. Gonzales_Flores_DGO014 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Agustín González Flores Subject The topic of the resource Bracero Description An account of the resource Biographical Synopsis of Interviewee: Agustín González was born on August 28, 1928, in Pueblo Nuevo, Durango, Mexico; he had thirteen siblings; the spreading rumors of first time braceros making a substantial amount of money along with his brother’s insistence led him to enroll in the program in 1943; he worked in California and Texas, picking cotton, lemons, and oranges. Summary of Interview: Mr. González briefly recalls his family, childhood, and early adolescence; the spreading rumors of first time braceros making a substantial amount of money aroused his curiosity in the bracero program; in 1943, he and one of his brothers enrolled in the program; together they went through the contracting center in Chihuahua, Chihuahua, México; he describes the official documents that were required, the humiliating medical exams they underwent, and how some of the men suffered from cold and hunger while waiting outside of the center; the guards at the center were also particularly cruel and even killed some of the men; from the center in Chihuahua, he and his brother were transported to the reception center in El Paso, Texas, by trains in cattle cars; as a bracero, he worked in California and Texas, picking cotton, lemons, and oranges; he goes on to describe what daily life was like on the farms, including work, wages, contracts, housing, food, weekend outings, and the relationships between the braceros and their American employers; in addition, he comments that he and other braceros were often discriminated against by Mexican-Americans; he concludes that his memories of the program are both happy and sad, but even so, he is proud to have been a bracero. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Martínez, Laureano González Flores, Agustín Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2003-05-30 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Institute of Oral History, The University of Texas at El Paso Language A language of the resource spa Contribution Form The set of elements containing metadata from the Contribution form. Online Submission Indicates whether or not this Item has been contributed from a front-end contribution form. No Additional Item Metadata The additional item metadata element set, consisting of all item elements created by an administrator and not assigned to an item type, and item elements created by plugins and not assigned to an item type or other element set. Additionally, the metadata element set that, in addition to the Dublin Core element set, was included in the `items` table in previous versions of Omeka. These elements are common to all Omeka items. title (Spanish) Spanish version of the 'title' Dublin Core field. Agustín González Flores creator (Spanish) Spanish version of the 'creator' Dublin Core field. Martínez, Laureano Rights Holder Institute of Oral History, The University of Texas at El Paso Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. subject (Spanish) Bracero Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview. Martínez, Laureano Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed. Flores Contreras, Agustín Location The location of the interview. Durango, Durango, México Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound. Nombre del entrevistado: Agustín Flores Contreras Fecha de la entrevista: 2 de junio de 2003 Nombre del entrevistador: Laureano Martínez Esta es una entrevista con el señor Agustín Flores Contreras, en la ciudad de Durango, Durango, el día 2 de junio de 2003. Conducida por Laureano Martínez, para el Proyecto Bracero del Instituto de Historia Oral de la Universidad de Texas en El Paso. LM: Don Agustín, buenas tardes. AF: Buenas tardes, señor. LM: Primero que nada me gustaría preguntarle, ¿dónde y cuándo nació usted? AF: Yo nací en el rancho de Orizaba, Municipio de Villa Unión Poanas, y nací el primero de abril de 1940. LM: Primero de abril. AF: De 1940. LM: ¿Cuántos años tiene, me dijo? AF: Sesenta y tres y meses. LM: ¿Cómo se llamó su papá? AF: José Guadalupe Flores Serrato. LM: Y, ¿su mamá? AF: Isabel Contreras Aguilar. LM: ¿De dónde eran originarios ellos? AF: De ahí mismo, Poanas. LM: ¿Cuántos fueron ustedes de familia? AF: Tuvimos ocho hermanos, fuimos ocho hermanos, entre hermanas y hermanos. LM: ¿Cuántos hombres y cuántas mujeres? AF: Son cinco mujeres. Y, no, perdón, cuatro y cuatro. LM: Cuatro y cuatro. AF: Cuatro y cuatro. LM: De esos ocho, ¿qué lugar ocupa usted, don Agustín? ¿Usted era el menor? AF: El mayor. LM: ¿O el mayor? AF: Sí, sí, fui el mayor. LM: El mayor. Háblenos un poquito de ese lugar donde usted nació. ¿Cómo es Orizaba, cómo es Poana? AF: Pos Orizaba, en aquellos tiempos era un rancho con muchas necesidades, mucho, muchas, no había trabajo, por el hecho de que había puro, pues sembraba uno de temporal por decir, no había agua, no había riego. Y fue el motivo de que, pues yo me salí de ahí para, pa buscar trabajo donde fuera, ¿verdad?, en aquellos tiempos estaban muy mal los municipios. LM: ¿Había mucha pobreza? AF: Muchísima pobreza, sí, máxima las familias numerosas pues, imagínese para mantener ocho o seis hijos, pues no, no, no era, no era tan fácil. LM: Con el puro… AF: Ya uno, por ejemplo, yo empecé a trabajar desde los siete años por decir. A mí me sacaba mi padre de la escuela para ir a ayudarle a sembrar, o inclusive me prestaba con los amigos por $1 peso, lo que fuera, para que yo les ayudara a sembrar sus tierras, ¿verdad? Y eso fue mi vida, trabajar aquí, trabajar allá, siempre desde niño, desde niño. LM: ¿Era campesino su papá? AF: Sí, era campesino. LM: ¿Qué sembraban? AF: Maíz y frijol, era lo que se sembraba, maíz y frijol. Se levantaba, pos a veces para comer, en algunos meses se acaba el maíz y el frijol. Y tenía que salir uno a otro lado a buscarle, a buscar qué comer. LM: ¿Hasta qué año llegó usted en la escuela? AF: Allá, pues le digo que me sacaba. Bueno, para empezar no había sexto año allá, había tercer año o cuarto año nada más, yo nomás cuarto año estudié allá. Y aquí ya, pues hice mi, terminé mi primaria y hice secundaria ya grande, ya adulto, entonces tengo ahorita nada más secundaria. LM: Tiene hasta secundaria. AF: Sí, secundaria. Pero eso ya lo hice aquí ya de grande. LM: ¿Cómo fue su infancia, don Agustín? AF: Mi infancia fue muy triste, con hambre, con hambre. Habría días que comíamos por decir un taco, por decir. Un taco, y con ese taco, pos había que ir a trabajar, porque no había más, no había más. Me acuerdo yo que cuando estaba en la escuela, mi mamá me llevaba a la hora del recreo un pan, un pan con frijoles o algo así. Y yo me acuerdo que el maestro me decía porque yo empecé muy bien, según él en la escuela, de primero y segundo año, yo estaba yo en primer lugar por decir algo. En primero y segundo, después ya, me fui para abajo, pero yo le echo eso de que, mi papá me sacaba de trabajar, digo de la escuela, para irme a trabajar y mal comido, entonces, pues me fui para abajo. LM: Claro. AF: Y me decía el maestro: “Oye, como qué sea posible que, si estaba bien, estaba esto pues, ahora no, y, ¿por qué?, ¿qué te pasa o qué problemas tienes?”. “No maestro pues, pues nada, pues no, ya no se me pega lo que usted me dice”. Esas cosas y así, y ya pasó el cuarto año ya, me salí de la escuela y a trabajar ahí mismo, trabajar ahí en lo que fuera, ahí en lo que fuera. LM: Claro. AF: De albañil, de lo que se presentara. LM: Muy bien. AF: Y no muy, mucho trabajo, inadecuado para mí porque yo me acuerdo, allá se acostumbra a hacer adobes, de esos grandotes. Entonces había que llevar en parihuelas el lodo para echárselo a la, pa que se formara el adobe. Y yo no podía, se me resbalaba, me ponían un lazo de aquí a aquí, para subir, para aguantar eso, y no, pues ahí anduvimos haciendo de todo. Pero con hambre, eso sí, mal comidos, es lo que fuera de trabajo pero mal comidos. Y ya, crecí me metí al servicio militar, salí y ya, pues me vine para acá a Durango a ver si me contrataban aquí, duré como, ¿pues qué le diré?, veintidós días y todos los días ahí en el Estadio Francisco Zarco. LM: ¿Cuál sería su primer trabajo de paga, don Agustín? AF: ¿De paga? De paga fue, ¿qué le diría?, de unos diez años, a los diez años ya me pagaban un sueldo, me pagaban $2.50 a la semana. LM: ¿Qué hacía? AF: O sea que había una hacienda por allá, esos sí tenían agua, sembraban chile y nos ocupaban a apartar el chile, o sea, el chile bueno a un lado y el otro para el otro lado y así, todo el día. Se iba uno temprano y se regresaba ya oscureciendo, porque estaba lejos, se iba uno caminando, de ahí estaba lejecillos, y ahí ya me pagaban $2.50 por semana. LM: ¿Por semana? AF: Sí, me acuerdo perfectamente bien. LM: ¿Usted se lo daba a su mamá? AF: Sí, sí, se lo daba a mí mamá y ella pues ya sabía si me compraba una camisita o, un pantalón o algo, pero pues yo se lo entregaba todo. LM: Claro. AF: Sí, y así sucedió ya y nos fuimos ahí trabajando y trabajando y, pero después, después trabajé ya grande, a los quince, dieciséis años, pues ya me pagaban como un hombre, y con un salario, era lo que… LM: ¿Ahí mismo en la hacienda? AF: Ahí mismo en la hacienda. Entonces ya, me metí al servicio militar, saliendo con mi cartilla y vámonos. LM: ¿Cómo se enteró usted del programa de los braceros?, ¿cómo supo que se podía ir a trabajar a los Estados Unidos? AF: Ah, bueno, muchos de mis tíos, algunos de mis tíos se iban cada año, los contrataban y se iban cada año, cada año y a mí, yo deseo era eso, irme también como ellos se iban, ¿verdad? Y me decían ellos: “Mira, esto es difícil, no creas porque nos vamos a ir juntos, tú y yo, nos va tocar trabajar juntos, a ti te van a contratar ahí y te van a mandar a otro lado y a mí para otro lado y, y pos tú estás muy jovencito”. Y yo no salía pues, yo, conocía el rancho, no conocía nada para acá. Entonces no, dije: “Yo de todos modos me voy”. “Pues sí me toca solo o no solo, yo me voy de todas maneras”. “Vas a sufrir mucho y esto”. Mi mamá venía aquí, hasta por mí a Durango, dijo: “Vámonos, esto está muy difícil, hombre, que esto y que, y que pos ta sufriendo mucho y este ya acabó el dinero, aquí te traigo otros centavitos para que comas ahí, pos comíamos... LM: ¿Cuánto duraban aquí para contratarse? AF: Pos unos duraban hasta un mes. LM: ¿Qué gastos hacían? AF: Pos comer. LM: ¿Cómo era ese proceso? Platíquenos. AF: Pues llegaba uno aquí, y toda la gente nos íbamos al Estadio Francisco Zarco, ahí es donde había micrófono ahí, ahí ya. “Mañana hay contratación, para que se vengan”, y que sabe qué. Hacíamos fila, el que le tocaba ya llegar a la fila pues ya, ese ya estuvo, y se quedaba otra fila, se quedaba otra fila para otro día, o para otra orden de contratación y ya, pero pues se quedaba uno pos otra vez a gastar en tacos, ahí lo que fuera y se quedaba uno pues donde fuera. LM: Ah, está bien. AF: Ah, no hay problema. Y así, y se le acababa a uno el dinero y ahí anda sufriendo, con el compañero: “Oye pues píchame un taco, píchame una gorda o lo que sea”. LM: Claro. AF: Y dentro lo que sea. LM: ¿Era duro? AF: Era durísimo, durísimo. LM: ¿Dónde se quedaban? AF: Pues, en lo más barato, donde comprábamos, hay mucha gente que tenían aquí familiares, pues nos íbamos varios y nos quedábamos ahí en el patio, donde fuera, para no gastar en el hotel, ni nada de eso. LM: ¿A qué horas iban allá al estadio? AF: No, desde muy temprano. Muy temprano hasta que, pues ya, nos decían: “Pues, ¿saben qué?, se acabó. Los que se alcanzaron ahora ya qué bueno, y hay que esperar a que nos vuelvan otra vez a dar la orden de contratar”. LM: ¿Cuántos días duró para contratarse? AF: Yo pienso que eso yo duré como veintidós días, para contratarme. LM: ¿No se desesperó? AF: Pues no, mis deseos eran muchos de irme porque yo veía las cosas muy mal, pues todos mis amigos estaban chiquillos, yo era el mayor, entonces pues eran mucho, tenacidad pues de ir. Ya le digo, mi mamá venía por mí, y yo no: “No me voy mamá, aquí yo voy a estar hasta que me contraten”. Y así, y, sí, hasta que ya nos tocó la buena y nos contratamos y nos fuimos aquí por Monterrey. LM: ¿Lo mandaron a Monterrey? AF: Sí de Monterrey y luego, pues todavía pasamos ahí por McAllen pues. LM: Ajá, pero, ¿lo mandaron a un centro de contratación? AF: Sí. LM: ¿Cómo era?, ¿llenaban alguna lista o qué? AF: ¿Allá o aquí? LM: De aquí a Monterrey. AF: No, no, nada más nos tomaban el nombre. “fulano de tal”, lo llamaban, “y te vas a…Por Monterrey pues por decir, “te vas por Monterrey”, y esto, y esto y esto, pero… LM: ¿Qué hubo ahí en Monterrey, don Agustín? AF: No, pues ahí nos estuvimos otro rato, otro día, dos días, pero ya íbamos con eso de que, cuando estaba ahí regresaban algunos, ya no me acuerdo el motivo por qué a algunos los regresaban de ahí, de Monterrey. LM: ¿Les hacían algunos exámenes médicos? AF: Sí, sí, sí, y ya cuando entramos a, ¿qué será?, pues al otro lado, no me acuerdo exactamente bien, nos fumigaron ahí a todos y esto, lo que sea. Entonces ahí, pues bueno, pues yo no sabía nada, pues esto quiere decir que ya, ya vamos ahora sí pa dentro, ¿verdad? LM: Claro. AF: Y, y así fue, no pues, un sufrimiento desde aquí como le digo, sufrimiento. LM: Era muy duro. AF: Yo me salía en las noches a llorar a los naranjales, de plano, de lo cansado, de acordarme de mi tierra, de mis hermanos, de todo eso, y no pues, yo en lugar de tener hambre de ir a cenar, yo me salía y lloraba por allá solo y con ganas de regresarme y con ganas de quedarme. Y le pensaba, no pues si sufrí tanto para venirme a trabajar acá, pues no es posible que me vaya. Y así, así, y a los… LM: ¿Qué es lo que lo animó a usted a irse a Estados Unidos? AF: La necesidad. La necesidad nomás. No, yo veía la casa de mi padre, pues no, mi padre fue analfabeto, él trabajó la tierra y la tierra y la tierra. No, no tenía ningún otro oficio, y luego ya, la necesidad pues no, no había, no alcanzábamos a comer, entonces eso es todo lo que a mí me animó a irme, y, y pues no, fue duro, fue duro desde el principio. LM: ¿Dónde cruzó la frontera usted, don? AF: Ahí en Hidalgo se llama, ¿no?, en McAllen. LM: Ah, Hidalgo, Texas. AF: Hidalgo, ahí pasamos. LM: Ah, okay. ¿En qué se fueron de ahí de Monterrey hasta McAllen? AF: No, me parece que en tren, sí en tren, estoy seguro que en tren. LM: ¿De pasajeros? AF: No, no me acuerdo, la verdad. Me acuerdo que en tren pero no, no, yo no, más no, no recuerdo. LM: ¿Cuánta gente se fue con usted? AF: No. LM: De sus amigos. AF: De mis amigos, bueno, veníamos muchos del rancho, pero unos ganaban pa otro lado y otros pa otro lado y conmigo nada más le tocaron a dos, o sea estuvimos tres del mismo rancho, nomás que ellos no aguantaron y se vinieron. Y yo me quedé, yo solo me quedé porque no era posible, pos, pues le sufrimos para irnos, nos prestaban dinero, entonces, pues hay que pagar lo que me prestaron para venirme y estar aquí, lo que sí hice es, me vine a los tres meses pero con el trato de regresarme luego luego, pues era Navidad pues. Yo en Navidad me estuve, ocho días o algo así parecido, y me regresé otra vez. LM: Cuénteme, ahí en Hidalgo, Texas, ¿a dónde lo llevaron cuando cruzó la frontera? AF: Pues ahí fue donde nos, un campamento ahí cuando fue, ahí fue donde nos fumigaron. LM: ¿Había algún centro de recepción? AF: Sí. LM: ¿De braceros? AF: Sí, sí. LM: ¿Cómo era ese centro? AF: No, pos un terreno, haga de cuenta un terreno y estábamos todos amontonados, todos amontonados ahí y ya nos estaban llamando luego para, echarnos esto y ya, y ahí ya nos… LM: ¿Había médicos ahí? AF: No, ahí no me acuerdo que haya… LM: Nomás. AF: Ah, no, no, no me acuerdo de eso, o sí, sí, sí. Cuando ya nos fumigaban, y ya para pasarnos allá, nos checaban pues, nos picaban aquí, nos picaban acá para ver sí no estaba uno enfermo yo creo de algo, eso es lo que… LM: ¿Les picaban el estómago? AF: Ándele, eso es lo que yo recuerdo. Uh, me imagino que ha de haber sido médico, ¿verdad? LM: Ajá. AF: Sí, eso es lo yo recuerdo de… LM: ¿Ahí firmó su contrato? AF: Sí, fíjese, ahí firmamos el contrato. LM: ¿De cuánto tiempo le dieron su contrato? AF: De seis meses. LM: ¿De seis meses? AF: Sí. LM: Y, ¿a dónde lo mandaron? AF: Lo mandaron ahí a un ranchito cerca de, ahí por, más arribita de McAllen, que se llama creo Mission, Mission, Texas entre McAllen y, ¿qué está por ahí?, Weslaco o quién sabe qué, pues no, no, no recuerdo muy bien. Y ahí le hicimos en la naranja. LM: En la naranja. AF: Sí, en la naranja. Yo siempre fui chaparrito, desnutrido, ¿verdad?, pues yo no sé qué hacía, pero había que subir con los costalotes de naranja llenos, por una escalera al camión, pa vaciarlos allá. Y así pasó mucho tiempo, después a los dos, tres meses, no me acuerdo bien, los patrones compraron un camión nuevo. Entonces nos dijeron: “¿Saben qué?, se va a comprar un camión nuevo, y vamos a hacer dos equipos, yo les voy a decir quién se va a camión nuevo, y se le va a pagar un poquito más, pero ya saben que tenemos que echarle ganas, y yo voy a decirles”. Pues en esos me fui yo, ¿verdad?, me seleccionaron para eso. Posiblemente porque me vieron con ganas de trabajar y todo eso y ahí estuvimos en ese camión nuevo echándole ganas y ganas, y pues fue un sufrimiento ahí también. LM: ¿Ya no estuvo en la pisca? AF: Sí, sí, sí en la pisca, en la pisca pero, nos daban mejores huertas, nos daban el camión nuevo, porque según ellos son, eran los más rápidos para la pisca de naranja, y como el camión se iba a pagar, ¿verdad?, pues tenía que ganar más. LM: Claro. AF: Tenía que ganar más. LM: ¿Cómo es la pisca de la naranja? AF: Usa unas escaleras, unas escaleras, el árbol pues es chico, grande, como sea. Usa una escalera, la recarga en el árbol y se sube con su bolsa, bolsa grande, grande, ahí le dan una medida, una medida para, la que pase por ese anillo, ese no la corta. Eso es la empezar pues, al empezar la pisca, que todavía no está muy venida la fruta. Te vas así, esa persona tiene que andar escogiendo, andar escogiendo así. A veces, pos se va uno para abajo, ¿verdad?, porque pues la rama se quebró, lo que sea y vas a caer pa abajo. Y a veces era peligroso por los costales ya llenos. Que ya traía uno medio costal ahí arriba y luego se caía uno, pues sí se daba buenos trancacillos. Y ya después que maduraba ya, todo bien la naranja, pues ya así todo parejo, vámonos ya, todo como fuera, al costal ya era más. Pero nos, nos pagaban por día, no, no nos pagaban por destajo. LM: ¿Cómo les pagaban?, ¿se acuerda cuánto? AF: No, no me acuerdo, no me acuerdo ya bien, bien ya no, ¿para qué le voy a mentir? No me acuerdo cuánto nos pagaban pero… LM: Y luego que piscaban eso, ¿había que llevarlo al camión? AF: Sí, los echábamos al camión y ellos iban y lo vaciaban a la maquinaria porque apartaban allá si era la más grande o la más chica y así, y se regresaba. Ya cuando se regresaba ya teníamos otro camión lleno. LM: Claro. AF: Y así, exclusivamente así, así nos la llevamos. LM: ¿A qué horas empezaron a trabajar? AF: Pos tem[prano], como a las ocho. Como a las ocho y salimos ya tarde, ¿pos qué le diré?, pues casi era yo creo que de ocho a ocho. LM: De ocho a ocho. AF: Sí, porque hasta que ya no se veía es pisca uno. Y ya llegaba uno y hacer sus tortillas de harina, a hacer lo esto y lo que hacía ahí. LM: ¿Ustedes se cocinaban? AF: Sí, sí porque pa dar nosotros nos salíamos más caritos. LM: Claro, ¿qué cocinaban? AF: Pues haríamos tortillas de harina, y pues papas ahí lo que a uno se le hacía más fácil, ¿verdad? Y por eso yo, hasta mal comido estaban, había uno. LM: No comían a veces. AF: No, no, no comía uno bien. LM: ¿Era muy pesado el trabajo? AF: Era muy pesado, era muy pesado el trabajo. Sí, todo el día con el costal, ese morral es pesado, y comía uno pos lo que uno inventaba hacer ahí. LM: Claro. AF: ¿Verdad? LM: ¿Cómo era ese lugar donde vivían? AF: Era un pueblito chico, era un pueblito chico. Había únicamente una tienda, me acuerdo, una tienda donde compraba uno ahí de refresco, algo. Y ya para venirse a McAllen pos, tendría que venirse en un taxi o lo que fuera. Pero siempre comía uno ahí en la casa, por lo mismo por no gastar dinero. LM: Claro. AF: Porque si se va uno a un restaurant, o un, algo que lo asistan pos ahí se queda. LM: No, ahí se acaba el dinero. AF: Ahí se acaba el dinero, sí. LM: ¿Cómo eran esas barracas donde dormían? AF: Eran unas de madera. De madera así largotas, largotas, largotas y las camas de dos, o sea unos abajo y otros arriba. LM: En literas. AF: Sí, en literas, como literas, también de maderas. Y pues ahí es donde nos… LM: ¿Cuánta gente metían en cada barraca? AF: Pos yo creo que, ¿qué le diré?, pues unas doscientas yo creo. LM: ¿Doscientos? AF: Ey. LM: Y, ¿cómo estaban amuebladas, don Agustín? AF: No, no, no, eran pura madera, pura madera y una colchoneta abajo y es todo, una cobijilla y ya, eso es todo ya. LM: ¿No tenían en dónde poner sus cosas? AF: No, no, nada. Ahí abajo en el suelo, lo que sea. Sí, sí, no había nada de eso. LM: ¿Cómo era el ambiente de trabajo entre los mismos mexicanos? AF: Pues había problemas como siempre. Había unos que les gustaba tomar y los sábados pos llegaban ahí pos peleándose como gritando, lo que sea, no dejaban dormir a uno. Los que ya tenían pues experiencia, que eran gente que iba y venía cada, cada vez que querían, ¿verdad? Y uno que iba pues jovencillo la primer vez que sea, pues hasta se asustaba uno. Llegaban cuetes y hora que estoy y ya ve como gritan y pues no, pues qué iba a dormir uno. Y pues era, eso era lo que pasaba. LM: ¿Alguna vez tuvo algún problema ahí con alguien? AF: No, no, no, no yo, yo me retiraba de esa gente. O sea que veía los que querían pelear o los que le caía uno mal o lo que sea, o envidias podríamos decir. Porque nosotros los que nos escogieron para el camión nuevo, pues los otros como que no se quedaron, porque nos iban a pagar un poquito más. Yo no me acuerdo cuánto, ellos dijeron: “Se metieron al camión nuevo y se les va a pagar un poquito más, pero le echan ganas”, pues sí. Entonces había personas fuertes y ya hombres maduros por lo que sea, pero pues ven que no les echaban ganas, o sea se escondían detrás de los árboles y pues le hacían al cuento ahí y a esos no los escogieron, ¿verdad? Y pues había ciertas envidias ahí, con ellos, pero pues, son un por ejemplo yo fui chavo, y yo no les hacía caso, ¿verdad? LM: Claro. AF: Yo no les hacía caso y, pero sí había problemas, sí. LM: ¿Tenían mayordomo ahí? AF: Pos sí, bueno pues los mismos, los mismos oficiales choferes de los camiones eran los hermanos del dueño podemos decirlo. LM: ¿Eran hermanos del dueño? AF: Sí, ándele, pues ellos mismos son los choferes y al mismo tiempo los estaban… LM: ¿Eran americanos ellos? AF: Pos no, yo no pienso que eran, pues sí americanos, pero no blancos pues. LM: ¿Cómo eran? AF: ¿Cómo? Pues eran del tipo de nosotros, morenos pero sí, como que nacieron allá. Como que son padres de mexicanos o algo así. LM: Eran, ¿eran mexicoamericanos? AF: Ándele, así. LM: Y, ¿cómo se portaban ellos con ustedes? AF: Pues, yo digo que, pos que bien, ¿verdad? Nomás nos apresuraban mucho, eso sí. No, no eran así tan malos así nomás, y: “Échele, apúrele, tú anda levántate esto”. Sí lo traía uno a carrilla, pero en buenas palabras, no decían no, no tan malos pues. LM: ¿Cuánta gente trabajaba ahí en ese campo? AF: No, pues yo calculo que unos, ¿pues qué será?, unos trescientos, yo creo. LM: Unos trescientos. AF: Sí, unos trescientos. LM: Oiga, don Agustín, y, ¿cada cuándo les pagaban? AF: Cada ocho días. LM: ¿Les pagaban con cheque? AF: Con cheque. LM: Y, ¿dónde cambiaban ese cheque? AF: Pues ahí se los cambiaba la de la tiendita, sí cualquiera, los mismos taxistas, los sábados iban taxistas para los que quisieran ir a Reynosa, o a McAllen, y ahí mismo se los cambiaban. O sea que, donde quiera lo cambiaba uno el cheques ahí. LM: O sea que trabajaban de qué horas, ¿de lunes a sábado? AF: De lunes a sábado, descansaba uno el domingo. LM: ¿Qué hacían en esos días de descanso? AF: Pues cada quien, o sea no le digo, muchos, los viciosos pues que había en ese tiempo ahí, se iban a Reynosa por decir, se pasaban a Reynosa, se fueron a Reynosa y se estaban, se estaban, se venían desde el sábado, regresaban el domingo. Y eso te digo que a veces llegaban tomadillos sin disentimiento. Y yo cuando mucho me iba a McAllen al cine, uno que otro día me pasé a Reynosa porque ahí vivía un pariente mío cerquita de Reynosa, iba y lo visitaba y ya me regresaba. LM: ¿Eran libres de ir y venir como querían? AF: Sí, sí, sí, los sábados puedes irte a Reynosa, puedes salirte a donde tú quieras, y aquí tienes que trabajar el lunes, podías salirse a donde fuera, con esta mica. Con esta mica salía y entraba. LM: ¿Esa dónde se la dieron? AF: Ahí en Hidalgo. LM: Y, ¿qué le dijeron? La tienes que cargar. AF: Sí. “La tienes que cargar, esa la tienes que cargar porque si sales ya no te dejan entrar”. Y esta cosa, y esta la tiene que cargar uno siempre. Y así fue y todo esto. LM: ¿Iban a misa? AF: No, yo no iba. Estaba uno en McAllen acá a misa y luego estaba retirado. No, no, no se acostumbraba eso, ir a misa. No había pues ahí templos cerca, eso no había. LM: Y, ¿en el cine, les pasaban películas en español o películas en inglés? AF: Sí, sí, no mexicanas, sí mexicanas. LM: Mexicanas, muy bien. ¿Mandaba dinero? AF: Sí, sí mandaba dinero. Yo nomás me quedaba con lo que yo, sí había un problema poderme trasladar a mi tierra, o sea dejaba unos dólares ahí para… LM: Lo indispensable. AF: Sí lo indispensable, lo demás pues lo mandaba, lo mandaba porque yo sabía que era necesario mandar el dinero, sí, sí, sí. Estábamos pero fea la cosa. LM: Y, ¿tenía comunicación con su familia?, ¿se comunicaban de alguna manera? AF: Pues con carta. LM: Con carta. AF: Nada más con carta. LM: ¿Qué se platicaban en esas cartas? AF: Pos, por ejemplo yo nomás le decía: “Estoy bien”. ¿Verdad? “Y estoy a gusto y yo no me voy hasta que termine mi contrato”. Y esas cosas. Pero ya ella, de allá para acá, pos me mandaba decir: “Oye, yo supe que no te vienes porque no tienes dinero, ¿qué hago mijo, consigo aquí para mandarte, o para que te vengas? Estás sufriendo allá”. Porque mis compañeros se fueron antes que yo, y le preguntaban, ¿verdad?, que: “Oye, y Agustín, ¿por qué no se vino o qué?”. “No, pues, ¿con qué se venía si no tenía en qué venirse?”. Entonces ya eso la preocupaba y, y… Y pos me mandaba cosas tristes ahí que estoy que: “No, mamá, yo aquí guardo para la hora que yo quiera me regreso, lo que yo le mando eso es otra cosa”. Pero y así, cartas de aquí para allá, cartas de allá pero pues sí, con tipos, mi mamá nunca, fui el mayor y nunca había salido a ningún lado, pues estaba preocupada. LM: Claro. AF: ¿Verdad? LM: Como cualquier madre, ¿verdad? AF: Sí, exactamente. Y luego ya solo, ya me quedé yo solo sin ningún compañero pues del mismo rancho, ni nada. Mis tíos se fueron por otro rumbo. LM: ¿Por qué se regresaron esos compañeros? AF: Pues por lo mismo difícil, por lo mismo duro. Nomás que ellos, ellos no tenían pues la necesidad que yo tenía. LM: Claro. AF: Este, pues uno de ellos su papá era carnicero, como quiera tenía otras entradillas, el otro no tenía hermanos, no tenía papá, era na más, pues solo, por decir. Entonces fue por ese motivo, pues ya no quisieron estarle sufriendo más ahí al trabajo, y yo no, yo quise pues completar el contrato. LM: Claro. AF: ¿Verdad?, eso. LM: ¿Lo cumplió? AF: Sí, sí, sí lo cumplimos, y ya después, pues ya no. LM: ¿Qué sueños tenía usted allá en Estados Unidos? AF: Pues yo pienso que ni tiempo para soñar. Lo que yo sí me acuerdo es que salía a llorar muy seguido, a las huertas, pa que no me viera nadie ahí. Salía acá y, y no: “¿Me regresaré o qué onda?, o no, ¿pues cómo?, pues voy a aguantarme”. Y esto pero, sí, sí era durísimo. A lo mejor era por lo joven que estaba o no sé que… LM: Claro, ¿qué es lo que más extrañaba? AF: Pos mi familia, mis amigos, todos esos los, ¿vedá? Eso sí, allá pos no, pos no tenía nada, yo solo. LM: Claro. AF: Yo solo, como le digo, me salía cada mes a esa a visitar a mi tío, pero pos ya vine, ya me voy y listo, nomás eso. LM: ¿Hizo algunos amigos por ahí con los compañeros? AF: No, no. No de allá no, como le digo, yo prefería estarme lejos de ellos. LM: Claro. AF: ¿Por qué, por qué? Porque, sí hace uno amigos con esa gente, lo invitan uno que a Reynosa y allá a lo mejor se molestan hasta porque uno no quiere echarse la cerveza y esas cosas y sale uno de pleito. Entonces yo prefería mejor, pues yo solo. Porque sí, uno a la fuerza, pues platicábamos todos ahí pero, pero, no tuve yo problema de eso. LM: Claro, muy bien. ¿Era fácil conseguir una extensión de contrato? AF: No, no. LM: ¿Alguna vez le tocó que le ofrecieran quedarse? AF: Bueno, cuando yo me vine a los tres meses, me rogaba mucho el patrón: “No te vayas, hombre. ¿Por qué te vas si aquí hay trabajo, por qué te tienes que ir?”. No pues este, y yo, me acuerdo que hasta le dije una mentira, que le dije: “No, es que mi abuelito estaba muy enfermo y tengo que ir a verlo”. Ya no supe que decirle. “Nombre, pues ve que te digan cómo sigue”. “No”, dije, “ya me voy, que al cabo regreso”. “¿Vas a regresar de veras?”. “Sí, voy a regresar”. Y sí. LM: ¿Estaba muy contento él con su trabajo? AF: Sí, estaba muy contento. Y sí regresé, pero, ¿sabe por qué regresé? Me tocó la de malas, el dinero que traía, aquí me lo robaron, aquí en Durango. Me acuerdo, traía $600 pesos, $600 pesos de los que yo juntaba para venirme, $600 pesos y aquí me los robaron. Entonces ya llegué, allá al rancho, sin dinero. “Oiga mamá, me robaron allá y esto, ¿usted no tiene nada?”. “No, mijo pues lo que nos mandaron pues nos los gastamos en comer, lo gastamos en eso, pagamos drogas ahí que la tienda donde sacamos fiado, pues pagamos”, y esto así. “Uy”, dije, “¿sabe qué mamá?, tenemos que conseguir otra vez para irme, me robaron el dinero ahí en Durango”. LM: ¿Cómo fue que se lo robaron? AF: Fíjese, me acuerdo que fue exactamente en 5 de Febrero y Pasteur. Se acerca un amigo así joven y ya platicamos, pero se sabía que uno venía de allá, por la ropa que traía. Se sabía que uno venía desde bracero. Y estos: “Oye, y que esto y, ¿cómo está?, yo soy de Villa Unión”. Fíjese, eso fue donde me dio confianza. “Yo soy de Villa Unión, conozco a Miguel Ángel Cisneros”. Ah caón, pues este es ahí vecino pues y todo eso. Y tú: ¿Cómo te fue allá?”. “No, pues bien, bien, y pues ya vengo y unos días y ahí me voy a regresar otra vez”. “Y, ¿qué tal de chamba?”. “Pues bueno, ya está”. Ya nos fuimos caminando y me jaló para acá donde es cuartel Juárez, la Juárez por ahí, ahí se juntó con otros amigos, y luego dice el otro amigo: “Quíhubole, ¿cómo estás?, y qué este fue y que vino”, pues palero, ¿verdad?”. LM: Ajá. AF: “¿Qué te juego un volado de a $100 pesos?”, le dijo el que se encontró a él. “No, no traigo dinero, no, si trajera pos sí”. Luego me dice: “Pon el dinero, traigo una moneda de doble águila”. Sí, pues nos la jugamos. “No, no te la juego de a $100 te lo juego de a $500”. Y le dije yo: “No, aquí traigo $600, juégaselo de a $600”. Y se los di, se los di para que, para que se los… LM: Para que los apostara. AF: Para que los apostara, y a correr. LM: ¿Se echaron a correr? AF: Se echaron a correr. Fíjese lo que es la ignorancia, la inocencia de uno, ¿verdad? Y es que, y que fue, y eso que me dijo que era de Villa Unión y que me mencionó gente de allá, importante. Entonces pues yo, agarré una confianza tremenda con él. LM: Y, ¿cómo sabía él que usted era? AF: Y, ¿cómo sabía que yo era de Villa Unión?, eso fue lo que me llevó, me llevó a confiar en él. LM: Entonces… AF: Y con más razón, tenía que regresarme. LM: Claro. AF: ¿Verdad? Con más razón. LM: Y cuando se volvió, ¿en qué año se contrató la primera vez? AF: En el [19]59. En el [19]59, sí, ahí empecé, y, y… LM: Y se tuvo que regresar. AF: Sí, tuve que regresar, pues más bien por, me iba a regresar de todas maneras, porque mi casa de todos modos hacía falta. LM: Claro. AF: Hacía falta qué comer, hacía falta. LM: ¿Alguno de sus hermanos también fue bracero? AF: No, nadie. LM: Nomás usted. AF: Al menor no le gustó. Es lo que yo le decía así cuando me enojaba un poquillo, mi hermano el que me sigue, nunca me ayudó a trabajar. No quería traer leña, no quería, o sea, a él nunca lo rentaron por decirlo así. “Vete con fulano, te va a pagar tanto”. Nunca jamás, y era más alto que yo, más fuerte, pero siempre decía mi mamá: “¿Sabes qué?, él como que está enfermo”. “¿Por qué está enfermo?”. “Pues dice que un día que a la leña, que aullaron los coyotes”, y que quién sabe qué, y mejor se venía sin leña que ahí la dejaba tirada porque se asustaba, entonces, “debe estar enfermo”, decía.. “Ah, pues a lo mejor sí”. Y así fue, nunca me ayudó pues ahí a echarle la mano pues a mi padre. Porque mi padre no alcanzaba para nada, sí podía hacer lo que ya no alcanzaba. Él se iba a los ranchos, por ejemplo, había un ranchito que llovió de más, se puede decir, que les tocó la suerte que una nube se fue por allí y llovió y se levantó un poquito más la cosecha. Él se iba a ofrecer allá, me llevaba a mí también de grandecillo. “Pues vamos mijo, vamos a ver si nos ocupan allá a piscar el maíz o algo, a ayudarles a algo”. Pues andaba uno con uno y con otro y no: “No pues mire nomás que no levanté nada”, y ahí vamos. Y ya nos ocupaban, ellos nos daban, nos pagaban con un bulto de maíz, que con dinero no. Pues nos daba tantito frijol o nos daba tantito maíz. LM: No había dinero. AF: No había dinero. No había dinero, y así fue la situación. LM: ¿Cómo era su papá de carácter? AF: Muy bueno, un santo podría decirle. Sí, muy bueno mi padre. Y este, como le digo él no sabía leer ni escribir, puro trabajo, puro trabajo, y murió joven mi padre. LM: ¿De qué edad murió? AF: Cincuenta y cinco. LM: Muy joven. AF: Ya, ya viejito. LM: Muy joven. AF: Pero sí, el fue… LM: Se acabó mucho. AF: Se acabó, sí, se acabó mucho, trabajó muy duro y mal comido, y mal comido. LM: Y se regresó usted. Cada vez que se regresaba, don Agustín, ¿era lo mismo?, ¿había que ir a los centros de contratación? AF: Sí, sí, sí siempre. Cada vez que se regresaba tenía que ir a contratación, sí, cada vez. LM: Tenía que pasar las revisiones, la fumigación. AF: Sí, sí, sí, todo, todo. Y sí estaba enfermo alguien lo regresaban. LM: ¿Siempre se contrató por Monterrey? AF: Sí, sí, sí, sí. LM: ¿Quién era el que decidía: “Ahora te vas a Monterrey, ahora te vas a… AF: No sé, yo pienso esto, ¿no?, que los que mandaban las órdenes de pa contratar: “A mí mándame cincuenta personas”. “Uno, dos, tres, ustedes son para acá, ustedes se van para acá”. Son, me imagino que así se hacía. LM: En su segundo contrato, ¿a dónde lo mandaron? AF: Ahí mismo. LM: ¿Ahí mismo se regresó ahí mismo ahí en la naranja? AF: Sí, sí. LM: ¿Les preguntaban a ustedes a dónde querían ir a trabajar? AF: No. LM: O nomás… AF: No, no, no. “Tú te vas por ahí, tú te vas por ahí ya”. LM: Entonces fue una suerte, ¿verdad? AF: Sí, una suerte porque me decía mi tío: “Ojalá y me toque, no te toque el algodón cabrón, porque no, pues, va a estar difícil ahí, estás muy chavo tú y no sabes nada de eso”. Y no, pues no va, ahí me tocó. LM: ¿Su tío ya conocía? AF: Sí, ya conocía, él iba seguido pues. Cada año por eso iba y él me decía: “No, pues abusado con esto, y abusado con lo otro”. Pos sí, así.. LM: ¿Siempre se preparaban ustedes sus alimentos? AF: Sí. LM: O, ¿en alguna ocasión le tocó que tuvieran cocinero? AF: No, no, nunca, nunca, unos se… Cuando uno quería tomarse un café, había una señora donde hacían comida pues. Ahí iba y se toma un café o un taco, traía, de vez en cuando. LM: ¿Ahí mismo en…? AF: Sí, ahí mismo en un pueblito, ahí mismo en el pueblito. LM: ¿Cómo se portaba la gente en los pueblos con ustedes? AF: Bueno, pues no había, no había manera de platicar. LM: ¿No compraban algo?, ¿no? AF: Pues iba a la tienda y pues un refresco y lo que sea y es todo, pero allá mejor no. No, yo nunca conocí pues a nadie, a nadie, porque no había tiempo. Se iba uno temprano, llegaba tarde, hacer de comer, a donde ya, ¿a dónde se iba uno? Tenía que descansar para otro día. Entonces ya no, ya no había manera de salir. LM: ¿Le tocó conocer a la familia del patrón? AF: No, nomás a ellos. LM: Nomás a ellos. AF: No, la familia nunca para nada. Nomás a ellos. LM: ¿En cuánto tiempo le dieron su segundo contrato? AF: A los tres meses. O sea, era un contrato de tres meses. LM: Eran de tres meses. AF: Sí. LM: ¿En qué año fue? AF: No, perdón, de seis meses eran, de seis meses eran lo contratos. LM: De seis. AF: Sí. LM: Ese segundo, ¿en qué fue, al año?, ¿en qué época más o menos contrataban?, ¿se acuerda? AF: En septiembre, septiembre, vaya en octubre, ya en octubre o septiembre, eran las contrataciones. Es cuando se levanta yo creo allá las cosechas de todos lados, sí en ese tiempo eran las contrataciones. LM: ¿Alguna vez le tocó ver a La Migración por ahí, que les pidiera los documentos? AF: No, no, nunca, no nunca. Salía acá y entrabas, nadie, nunca, no había ningún problema. LM: ¿Había alguna gente que no fuera contratada en los ranchos? AF: No, no, pura contratada había, que fuera contratada. Y ya muchos de ahí se iban, o sea, ya se vencía el contrato, se iban, no se regresaban a México, sino se iban pues de mojado pues. LM: Desertaban. AF: Sí, desertaban, se iban de ahí. LM: ¿Cómo era eso? AF: Pos, ya estando ahí lo que sea pos se desaparecían, y agarraban, a pa otro lado. LM: ¿Alguna vez lo llegaron a invitar a…? AF: No, no, no, no, nunca, nunca, nunca. LM: Pero sí, sí notó usted que algunos se iban. AF: Sí, unos se iban, algunos se iban para otro lado, y yo pensé: “Bueno, pues si aquí hay una seguridad porque estamos contratados, hay una seguridad como quiera, y se va uno por ahí en el camino y, ¿qué va a pasar?” No sabe uno ni que, ni que vaya a pasar. Sí, esa es la cosa, sí pasa no. LM: Cuénteme, don Agustín, sembraban algún otro cultivo, o tenían algunas otras huertas de otra fruta ahí en el rancho. AF: No, eran naranja, únicamente naranja. LM: Fue únicamente naranja. AF: Sí, naranja únicamente, pura naranja, unas ya viejas las huertas de árboles grandotes y otros, pos medianos y otros chiquititos porque ponían siempre pues. LM: Claro. AF: Estaban siempre. LM: ¿Jugaban alguna cosa los fines de semana? AF: Nada, nada, no había el tiempo para nada. LM: ¿Lavar la ropa acaso? AF: Lavar la ropa, ahí mismo la lavaba uno. LM: Y, ¿cómo le hacían para su aseo personal?, ¿ustedes compraban sus cosas? AF: Sí, sí, uno compraba su jaboncito y se bañaba, se bañaba uno, no había ni regaderas. LM: No, ¿dónde se bañaban? AF: Con bandejas se bañaban, con balde, a baldazos. LM: A baldazos. AF: Sí, no, no había regadera. Había una, un, ¿cómo se llama?, para ir al servicio, un este, eh. LM: Unas fosas. AF: Ey, unas fosas, si. LM: ¿No tenían drenaje? AF: No, no tenían nada, sí, no tenían. LM: ¿Era poco higiénico? AF: Sí, sí sí. LM: Algo que recuerde usted que se hayan quejado con el patrón, o, alguna queja común entre los compañeros. AF: Me recuerdo alguien que le pidió, o sea, ahí habían unas personas que se quedaban en el suelo, ¿verdad? Como le diría, como que llegaba más gente, si ya nosotros por ejemplo cincuenta, estaban llegando más, y ya muchos no alcanzaban cama pues por decir algo, y se quedaban muchos en el suelo. Y me acuerdo esa vez que le dijeron: “Oiga, pues otras literas, otras cama o algo lo que sea”. “No, pues deja ver mañana, pasado”. O sea, pero nunca, nunca lo hacían, nunca lo hacían. Y ya que se iba uno lo que sea, pues ya se acomodaba el otro ahí. LM: Entonces sí había quien no alcanzaba cama o… AF: Sí, sí, sí porque llegaban gentes pues. O sea yo me imagino esto, que al principio en septiembre por ejemplo, contratan tantas personas. LM: Claro. AF: Porque está empezando la naranja, está empezando. Pasa otro mes o, mes y medio como por decir algo, y ya la naranja ya se está para piscar toda. Entonces, necesitan más gente, eso es lo que pasaba, que llegaba más gente y ya no, no había donde dormir. LM: ¿La segunda vez fue más fácil sobrellevar las cosas? AF: Sí, sí, ya más fácil, no, los tres meses primeros eran los difíciles. LM: Eran los más difíciles. AF: Sí, sí, sí, tremendísimo, eso nunca lo voy a olvidar en toda mi vida, sí, eso. LM: Ya después, ¿alguna vez sintió ganas de regresarse? AF: Pues lo que pasa es que, ya arreglé trabajo aquí, arreglé trabajo aquí, ya nunca me acordé de… LM: De volver. AF: De volver, porque pues aquí tenía un trabajito más o menos bien que… LM: ¿Nomás esas dos veces se contrató? AF: Nomás esas dos veces, sí. LM: ¿Cumplió el contrato de los seis meses? AF: Sí, sí, sí. Y después me fui a Chicago, pero ya. LM: Ya de ilegal. AF: Ya de ilegal. LM: Cuénteme de ese segundo contrato, cuando terminó su contrato, ¿qué le avisaron o qué les decían antes de que se terminara? AF: No, bueno, uno ya sabía que el contrato se iba a terminar en tal fecha. Entonces ya, ellos no decían: “Vamos a seguir con otros dos meses, tres meses”. O algo no, ya el contrato se vencía y ya se venía uno. LM: Y los llevaban. AF: Sí. LM: ¿Ellos los llevaban a algún lugar?, o, ¿ustedes se venían libremente? AF: No, libremente, ahí había taxis o lo que sea, ahí nos vemos y ya vámonos y… LM: ¿Les pagaban gastos por eso? AF: No, nada, nada. LM: ¿En qué se vino usted la segunda vez? AF: En autobús. LM: En autobús. AF: En autobús, entonces… LM: ¿Qué traía de allá, don Agustín? AF: Pues traía ropita, traía ropa, porque nunca me gustó comprar aparatos eléctricos, nunca me traje nada de eso. Ni me gustaba oír música ahí tampoco, no, yo estaba en el trabajo y pensando en mi tierra acá y todo eso, no me interesaba lo demás. Entonces, pos camisa, pantalones, es lo que me traje nomás, y poco, ¿vedá?, porque no había pesos para comprarme mucho. LM: ¿Cómo lo recibieron en su casa? AF: No pos bien, bien, feliz ahí todo mundo, mis amigos, mi mamá, mi papá. “Qué bueno que ya regresaste”. Y esto y ya pues de ahí me vine para acá a Durango y aquí empecé a trabajar y ya, me olvidé de volverme a contratar. LM: ¿Alguna vez sintió ganas de volverse a regresar? AF: No, no, no, ya no sentí ganas. LM: ¿Alguna vez se enfermó por allá? AF: Pues sí, de gripa, por ejemplo, así de esas que tenía que trabajar uno. LM: Claro. AF: Con un gripón que tenía uno. LM: Y de todos modos. AF: Y de todos modos había que trabajar. LM: ¿No les daban el día? AF: No, no nada. LM: ¿Tenían médico ahí en el rancho? AF: No, no había médico. Había, bueno y sí ya la cosa era grave pero por decir así que necesitara un médico, iba uno con un médico a otro pueblo, no me acuerdo qué pueblo sería, no me acuerdo. Iba uno con otro médico, y él lo checaba a uno a ver qué. LM: ¿Les cobraban ahí? AF: No, no nos cobraba. Era por parte de la compañía. LM: Parte del seguro. AF: Sí, no nos cobraban. Sólo es lo que había ahí. LM: Descríbame, por favor, un día de trabajo desde que se levantaba hasta que se acostaba. AF: Pues, por decir, a las cinco de la mañana ya hay que estar levantado, a las cinco de la mañana. LM: A las cinco. AF: Sí, para estar arreglando el lonche que se va a llevar uno, ¿vedá? Ahí desayuna uno algo, lo que uno tiene, lo que uno tiene lo que sea, desayuna uno algo, prepara el lonche que se va a llevar uno. Y luego ya, pues allá se come su lonche, lo que haya llevado, un refresco, lo que sea, ya se regresa uno, pues ya llega uno, pues ya tarde pues, por decir ya, ya oscurito ya, o el tardecito ya, hay que llegar luego luego a hacer, o sea, a comer algo uno. Y a hacer lo que se va a llevar mañana. LM: Claro. AF: ¿Vedá? Y ese, un día de trabajo pues normal, allá pues, podemos decir. LM: ¿Estaban cercas las huertas o estaba todo retirado? AF: No, había unas muy lejos. LM: Y, ¿ellos los llevaban hasta allá? AF: Sí, nos llevaban el camión, el mismo camión, atrás del camión. “Súbanse, los que… en este camión súbanse”. Y vamos allá, camine y camine hasta que llegamos a la huerta, si esa huerta estaba malona la terminábamos de piscar, nos trasladaban a otra y así. Solamente que esa huerta estuviera buena, pues ahí completábamos camiones y camiones, pero nos traían de un lado para otro, arriba del volteo por decirlo así. LM: ¿En qué trabajó usted cuando se vino acá en Durango? AF: Ah, ¿aquí a Durango? Pues aquí empecé de ayudante de albañil. De ayudante de albañil, duré como, pues siempre me ha gustado, yo no sé por qué será, pero el trabajo que yo agarre, la gente me agarra aprecio, me agarra cariño, que ya no quiere que me vaya. O sea, anduve con, con varia gente ahí, de ayudante de albañil, con el tiempo ya el mayordomo, el maestro mayor que le llaman, me decía: “Mira, tú ve a traerte el material, ve pide clavos, ve pide esto, ve pide esto, y ahí deja este muchacho que haga lo que estás haciendo”. “Okay”. Y más, más tiempo, ya me decía: “Este, ¿sabes qué?, agárrate una cucharita, ahí vele dando pa que te vayas enseñando esto y lo otro”. O sea me consentía pues. LM: Ajá. AF: “Y, ¿sabes qué?, pónteme y ya mejor ponte a barrer aquí donde está la mezcla tirada, y ponte a barrer ahí en la… Y luego me decía, me decía Piolín por lo chiquito. Has de cuenta: “Oye Piolín, ¿vamos a trabajar el domingo?”. “Vamos”. Me acuerdo que me daba $10 pesos, íbamos a trabajar, porque agarraba contratos aparte del trabajo que traía, agarraba los domingos. “Pues vamos a trabajar”. Tempranito nos íbamos, ya para las tres, dos, tres ya nos regresábamos, se echaba un baño uno ya con sus $10 pesos en la bolsa porque ya era otra cosa. Así, así pasó mucho tiempo. Y luego, un primo, él trabajaba en una agencia de carros, de Chrysler, él lavaba ahí los carros, los barría ahí, y me dijo: “Oye, sabes que yo, ya me voy a salir, me voy a salir de ahí, voy a agarrar otro trabajo, ¿no te quieres ir?”. “Pos sí traigo, traigo aquí trabajo para mucho tiempo y, ¿pos cómo me voy? Ahora, según me dices tú, me pagan menos que acá”. Ahí pagaban $60 pesos a la semana, acá me daban $70 más las propinas que se echaba uno los domingos y todo eso. “Oye, pos, pos está duro”, dije, “bueno, pero pues voy a ir”. Y me fui, y me fui. Eso fue en el [19]61, en el [19]61, y me metí a, pos a tener los carros limpios, era un lote, un lote de carro de venta. LM: Claro. AF: A tenerlos limpios, a barrer ahí todo eso y, no pos ya para medio día ya tenía yo todo barrido, todo limpio y ya, ya nomás me metía a los carros a oír radio. (risas) Entonces dije: “Bueno, pero estoy perdiendo el tiempo aquí yo pues, si ya tenían media hora, ¿qué hago aquí? Pues el sueldo es el mismo, pos se me hace que estoy perdiendo el tiempo aquí”. Así pasó, pos qué diré, tres, cuatro años, y me fui poniendo abusado yo ahí, y le dije al patrón: “Oiga, yo quiero ser vendedor de carros”. “No, no, no, ¿cómo va a ser?, sí esa ropa que traes no es para que seas vendedor, pues mira”. “No”, le dije “pues es que no, pues no tengo ropa, tengo ahí para esto”, le dije, “¿sabe por qué le digo? Allá en Villa Unión se abrió un sitio, se abrió un sitio, y yo veo que aquí hay carros que tienen más de un año que no se han vendido, yo se los puedo vender allá, pero deme chance de trabajar de vendedor”. “No, no, ándele, ve, lávame mi carro ahí en la calle, lávame mi carro allá y listo”. Y bueno, pues que, pues ni modo, tiene razón, ¿verdad?, mal vestido, mal todo eso pues no, no se veía bien. Y así pasó, y se salió ese señor, el gerente de ventas se salió y entró otro, entró otro y lo mismo le dije: “Oiga, ¿sabe qué?, yo quiero ser vendedor, ¿no me echa la mano ahí para…, pues póngame a prueba. Póngame a prueba y si le funciono bien, y si no, pues me regreso aquí”. Y habló con el mero dueño él: “Oiga, ¿sabe qué? Agustín…, esto, y esto y esto, “yo sí le veo ganas”. “Póngalo a prueba, póngalo, póngalo”. “Ta bueno”. En tres meses, les vendí, garrero que no habían vendido en todo un año, pero garrero. LM: Mire. (risas) AF: Me fui a Villa Unión y allá acomodé unos y aquí mismo. Ya hasta ni lo quería creer, pero garrero de verás, garreros que no podían vender ellos, porque pues ya estaban muy mal y les arreglaban esto, les arreglaban lo otro y de todos modos y, carros viejos ya. No pues le vendí, me acuerdo que ese mes, me pagaron $3000 pesos, $3000 pesos. Uh, agarré a mis hijos y mi mujer y vámonos a comprarle ropa y me compré ropa y me compré corbata y todo, no, no, no fue, y dije: “Pues sí, ya me fue bien este mes pues que me vean que ya cambié de ropa y ya cambié de esto y que me sigan acá”. Y un día ya me habló el mero, el dueño: “Ven Agustín, háblele a don Arroyo el contador, háblele también, ¿sabe qué?, siéntate aquí, siéntese usted ahí, quiero que Agustín se dedique ya a las ventas, ya ocupe otras personas a que se vaya al lote para que sea el encargado del lote, y él va a ser vendedor ya”. Viera cómo me fue bien. LM: Muy bien, qué bueno. AF: No, no, no, no. Por eso yo ya nunca jamás se me… LM: Jamás volvió a pensarlo. AF: No, no, no para nada. LM: Ni extrañó Estados Unidos. AF: Para nada. LM: Ni nada. AF: Para nada no, no, me fue mucho muy bien. LM: Qué bueno. AF: Mucho muy bien me fue ahí, y, y duré treinta años ahí. LM: Treinta años en la Chrysler. AF: Treinta años, treinta y dos más para hasta eso, treinta y dos, ahí trabajé treinta y dos años y ya se cambió de dueño, o sea un hermano poquito más grande, y el hermano que entró como que nos traicionó pues, como que ya no quería gente de muchos años. Entonces pues ya me presionó y la verdad pues mis clientes, yo tenía muchos clientes doctores, ingenieros, de todo, tenía mucha gente. LM: Ya tenía clientela. AF: Y fieles, eh, porque yo creo les gustaba, a mí me gusta siempre ser de esta manera, sí a un cliente le prometo esta cosa, eso tiene que ser, vendía un carro nuevo y me decía: “Oye, pues hazme favor de sacarme las placas”. “Sí, cómo no, déjeme el dinero y la tenencia de… Al siguiente día: “Ahí están sus placas”. “Ahí está su propina, ¿verdad?”. Bueno, había compañeros que se robaban el dinero de las placas, se les escondían. “Oiga, ¿y tu compañero?”, “Oiga no ha venido ahora”. Y yo no agarraba la onda, llegaban los clientes y ellos se escondían, se iban por otra puerta, y yo pienso que ese fue el motivo de que la gente quería tratar conmigo. Iba gente: “Oye, ¿no está aquí Flores?”. “No, no está ahorita de momento, ¿qué se le ofrece?”. “No, pues quiero verlo, quería ver ese carro”. “No, pues si quiere, lléveselo, yo se lo presto, yo se lo vendo”. “No, no, quiero hablar con él, dile que vine, que vino el doctor fulano, que me llame o si no que se, que vino, que se lo lleve a mi señora, este color que se lo lleve a mi señora pa que lo vea”. Ahí llegaba yo, me daban el recado e iba y se lo llevaba. LM: Y las comisiones eran para usted. AF: Sí, pero es cliente que yo le vendía una vez, era, no para ese día, era para muchos años, y me fue muy bien. LM: Don Agustín, me gustaría que me comentara, ya para ir finalizando su entrevista, ¿para usted, qué significa el término bracero? AF: ¿El término bracero? LM: ¿Qué sentimientos le causa esa palabra? AF: Para mí es, me causa tristeza, me causa, pues indignación, no le puedo decir eso no porque no, tristeza, este mucho muy difícil es eso, ser bracero, difícil. LM: Fue muy difícil. AF: Yo, yo, no creo que los que hayamos ido, se hayan sentido felices, yo pienso que todo era por necesidad. Todos estuvimos trabajando por necesidad, no porque nos gustara estar en Estados Unidos. LM: Claro. AF: Me imagino yo eso que es todo. LM: ¿Se siente usted orgulloso de haber sido bracero? AF: No, no, orgulloso no, porque, bueno, hay una cosa, no sé cómo explicarme, para mí fue un beneficio que yo necesitaba en ese tiempo. Necesitaba el trabajo donde fuera, pero así que yo diga: “Me siento orgulloso de haber venido de bracero, y quiero volverme ir a ver, no, la verdad no, la verdad no porque se sufre muchísimo. Primeramente dejar la familia, eso es lo más, lo más grave, dejar a su familia acá. Los niños que están en la escuela no los ve uno ni los sabe manejar, ¿verdad? Solos van creciendo. Y eso para mí es una cosa muy difícil, pero le vuelvo a repetir, es la necesidad que tiene uno del dinero. El dinero que se necesita para todo. LM: Sus recuerdos de esa experiencia, ¿son positivos o negativos? AF: ¿De haber ido de bracero? LM: Ajá. AF: Pues en cierto modo positivos, sí, porque sí eso yo estaba buscando, irme y lo logré, pues para mí fue, pues sí, algo que yo necesitaba y, y que bueno que lo logré, ¿verdad?, pero sí se sufre muchísimo. LM: Se sufre muchísimo. AF: Sí, muchísimo. LM: El haber sido bracero, ¿cambió su vida de alguna manera, don Agustín? AF: No, pues no. No, porque pues, de ninguna manera porque pues fui, gané un dinero, se gastó y ya a los poquitos meses ya es como si uno dijera, ya no, pues ya no hice nada con ese dinero, ¿vedá?, que hubiera dicho yo, con ese dinero hice esto donde me estoy manteniendo un negocito, unas vacas esto no, no, no para mí los dos, tres meses ya era lo mismo como si no hubiera ido. LM: No rendía mucho el dinero. AF: No, no rendía. No rendía, pues por la familia. Yo tenía muchos hermanos y que yo pues tenía que echarle la mano a mi padre ahí para eso, que unos zapatos, que una camisa para cada uno, lo que sea y se acabó. Se acabó y, y ya quedó la cosa igual. LM: Don Agustín, pues quiero darle las gracias por habernos recibido. AF: Pues ojalá y les sirva de algo. LM: Y por haber compartido con nosotros su vida y sus experiencias. Estamos muy agradecidos, a nombre de la Universidad de Texas en El Paso y del Instituto de Historia Oral y mío en lo personal le agradezco mucho esta oportunidad que nos… AF: Pues muchas gracias a usted que se molestó por haber venido hasta acá, ¿verdad?, pues no cuesta nada con… LM: No, no es ninguna molestia, al contrario. AF: Sí, ahí estamos para lo que se ofrezca. LM: Muchas gracias, con esto vamos a dar… AF: Ojalá y, ojalá y no sea la última vez que nos veamos. LM: No, esperamos que no, esperamos que no, estamos a sus órdenes. Fin de la entrevista Original Format If the image is of an object, state the type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data Mini Disc Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 1:02:37 Bit Rate/Frequency Rate at which bits are transferred (i.e. 96 kbit/s would be FM quality audio) 24 bit 96 k File Name Identifier The identifier for the sound file. Flores_Contreras_DGO010 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Agustín Flores Contreras Subject The topic of the resource Bracero Description An account of the resource Biographical Synopsis of Interviewee: Agustín Flores was born on April 1, 1940, in Poanas, Durango, México; he was the eldest of eight siblings, and as such began working in the fields at the age of seven in order to help his family; in spite of his continuing efforts to work and bring in money, his family’s financial situation continued to worsen; in a final effort to relieve his family’s economic burden, he traveled to Durango, Durango, to enroll in the bracero program in 1959; as a bracero, he worked in Texas picking oranges. Summary of Interview: Mr. Flores relives the hunger, sadness, and desperation that indelibly marked his childhood and adolescence; some of his uncles worked as braceros, and they had warned him that he would suffer greatly if he were to join them and work in the United States; in 1959, in spite of their admonitions, he decided to enroll in the bracero program with the hopes of alleviating some of his family’s financial burdens; he describes the long waiting periods during the hiring process he went through in Durango, Durango, México; in addition, he details the medical exams at the contracting center in Monterrey, Nuevo León, and the disinfecting procedures at the reception center in Del Rio, Texas; as a bracero, he worked in Texas at an orange orchard; he goes on to explain the daily activities, work, wages, payments, contract amendments and extensions, food, housing, common problems, and what some of the braceros often did on weekends; furthermore, he comments on what his life was like after the program, and he concludes that even after a year of working as a bracero, his financial situation did not improve. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Martínez, Laureano Flores Contreras, Agustín Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2003-06-02 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Institute of Oral History, The University of Texas at El Paso Language A language of the resource spa Contribution Form The set of elements containing metadata from the Contribution form. Online Submission Indicates whether or not this Item has been contributed from a front-end contribution form. No Additional Item Metadata The additional item metadata element set, consisting of all item elements created by an administrator and not assigned to an item type, and item elements created by plugins and not assigned to an item type or other element set. Additionally, the metadata element set that, in addition to the Dublin Core element set, was included in the `items` table in previous versions of Omeka. These elements are common to all Omeka items. title (Spanish) Spanish version of the 'title' Dublin Core field. Agustín Flores Contreras creator (Spanish) Spanish version of the 'creator' Dublin Core field. Martínez, Laureano Rights Holder Institute of Oral History, The University of Texas at El Paso https://braceroarchive.org/files/original/yepes_chic022_c01c483d53.mp3 9c031f5db625e284a79699369189824e Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview. Rivera, Angelica Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed. Yepes, Tirso Location The location of the interview. Chicago, Illinois Original Format If the image is of an object, state the type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data Mini Disc Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 1:19:56 Bit Rate/Frequency Rate at which bits are transferred (i.e. 96 kbit/s would be FM quality audio) 24 bit 96 k File Name Identifier The identifier for the sound file. Yepes_CHIC022 subject (Spanish) Bracero Additional Item Metadata The additional item metadata element set, consisting of all item elements created by an administrator and not assigned to an item type, and item elements created by plugins and not assigned to an item type or other element set. Additionally, the metadata element set that, in addition to the Dublin Core element set, was included in the `items` table in previous versions of Omeka. These elements are common to all Omeka items. title (Spanish) Spanish version of the 'title' Dublin Core field. Tirso Yepes creator (Spanish) Spanish version of the 'creator' Dublin Core field. Rivera, Angelica contributor (Spanish) Spanish version of the 'contributor' Dublin Core field. Cristóbal A. Borges Rights Holder Institute of Oral History, The University of Texas at El Paso Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Cristóbal Borges Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Rivera, Angelica Yepes, Tirso Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2005-09-01 Description An account of the resource Biographical Synopsis of Interviewee: Tirso Yepes was born on January 28, 1929, in Ocampo, Guanajuato, México; he is the youngest of his three siblings; as a child he helped work the land and care for animals, which consequently left him without a formal education; when he was about sixteen years old, after his mother died, he came to the United States as an undocumented worker; in 1949, his brother died, and he returned to México; he later worked with the bracero program from 1959 to 1963; as a bracero he labored in the fields of California and Texas picking cotton, strawberries, and tomatoes; he also drove a tractor and irrigated crops; in 1964, he emigrated to the United States, and by 1973, the rest of his family was able to do the same. Summary of Interview: Mr. Yepes briefly recounts his childhood and adolescence; from 1946 to 1948 he labored in the United States as an undocumented worker; he explains how people were often mistreated by immigration officials upon being deported, and they were intentionally sent to the wrong places; in 1959, he enlisted as a bracero, and he describes what he went through at the processing center in Monterrey, Nuevo León, México; his initial contract was three months, but he renewed it, and ended up staying in Earth, Texas, for a year and a half before returning to México; he had a great relationship with his boss there, and they maintained contact during the following years; as a bracero he went on to work throughout California and Texas picking cotton, strawberries, and tomatoes, and he also drove a tractor and irrigated crops; in addition, he talks about the various worksites, duties, living conditions, provisions, payment, treatment, remittances, and recreational activities; moreover, he talks about how workers’ rights were often violated, but they had no one to turn to for help or support; he relates one incident in which he was verbally and physically mistreated and humiliated at a processing center in Calexico, California; in 1964 he legally emigrated to the United States with the help of his first employer from Earth, Texas; by 1973, the rest of his family was also able to do the same. Language A language of the resource spa Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Institute of Oral History, The University of Texas at El Paso Subject The topic of the resource Bracero Title A name given to the resource Tirso Yepes https://braceroarchive.org/files/original/ortiz_torres_chic021_4b973c7e86.mp3 ea092ba784b46acc13ea4d4a99be6647 Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview. García, Myrna Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed. Ortíz Torres, Jesús Location The location of the interview. Chicago, Illinois Original Format If the image is of an object, state the type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data Mini Disc Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 1:21:03 Bit Rate/Frequency Rate at which bits are transferred (i.e. 96 kbit/s would be FM quality audio) 24 bit 96 k File Name Identifier The identifier for the sound file. Ortiz_Torres_CHIC021 subject (Spanish) Bracero Additional Item Metadata The additional item metadata element set, consisting of all item elements created by an administrator and not assigned to an item type, and item elements created by plugins and not assigned to an item type or other element set. Additionally, the metadata element set that, in addition to the Dublin Core element set, was included in the `items` table in previous versions of Omeka. These elements are common to all Omeka items. title (Spanish) Spanish version of the 'title' Dublin Core field. Jesús Ortíz Torres creator (Spanish) Spanish version of the 'creator' Dublin Core field. García, Myrna contributor (Spanish) Spanish version of the 'contributor' Dublin Core field. Cristóbal A. Borges Rights Holder Institute of Oral History, The University of Texas at El Paso Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Cristóbal Borges Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource García, Myrna Ortíz Torres, Jesús Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2005-08-31 Description An account of the resource Biographical Synopsis of Interviewee: Jesús Ortíz was born on March 7, 1938, in Ocampo, Guanajuato, México; he and his six siblings grew up very poor; rather than go to school, he helped his father work the land and care for animals; his mother died when he was about seventeen; in 1960, he was married, and shortly thereafter he began working as a bracero; he labored in the fields of Arkansas, California, Idaho, Michigan, and Texas, picking cotton, cucumbers, and tomatoes; after the bracero program ended he returned to the United States as an undocumented worker, but he was later able to obtain legal residency. Summary of Interview: Mr. Ortíz recalls the humble beginnings of his childhood and how much he and his family suffered; in 1960, he married Juana Moreno Gómez [See also No. XX], and shortly thereafter he began working as a bracero; he initially traveled to border cities in México on his own, where the only requirement was to pick a certain amount of cotton in order to cross into the United States; there were times, however, that he still had to wait for days or weeks to be called even after picking cotton, but some men were never called; he talks about not having any more money after waiting so long and being so desperately hungry that he had to beg for food; upon arriving in the United States he was stripped naked and medically examined, which was embarrassing; as a bracero he worked in Arkansas, California, Idaho, Michigan, and Texas, picking cotton, cucumbers, and tomatoes; moreover, he goes on to detail the various worksites, duties, living conditions, provisions, payment, and remittances; he also explains one instance in which there was a misunderstanding, and his family thought he had died; while working in Arkansas it rained a great deal, which made it impossible to pick crops or make any money; after the program ended he returned to the United States as an undocumented worker on several occasions, and he was also deported a few times, but he was ultimately able to arrange for residency; although he did suffer as a bracero, his overall memories of the program are positive. Language A language of the resource spa Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Institute of Oral History, The University of Texas at El Paso Subject The topic of the resource Bracero Title A name given to the resource Jesús Ortíz Torres https://braceroarchive.org/files/original/pineda_chic019_a0b7d0778c.mp3 298de9cdb3cb49b504ee957e9f91213a Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview. Fernández, Lilia Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed. Pineda, Pedro Location The location of the interview. Chicago, Illinois Original Format If the image is of an object, state the type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data Mini Disc Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 37:56 Bit Rate/Frequency Rate at which bits are transferred (i.e. 96 kbit/s would be FM quality audio) 24 bit 96 k File Name Identifier The identifier for the sound file. Pineda_CHIC019 Additional Item Metadata The additional item metadata element set, consisting of all item elements created by an administrator and not assigned to an item type, and item elements created by plugins and not assigned to an item type or other element set. Additionally, the metadata element set that, in addition to the Dublin Core element set, was included in the `items` table in previous versions of Omeka. These elements are common to all Omeka items. title (Spanish) Spanish version of the 'title' Dublin Core field. Pedro Pineda creator (Spanish) Spanish version of the 'creator' Dublin Core field. Fernández, Lilia contributor (Spanish) Spanish version of the 'contributor' Dublin Core field. Cristóbal A. Borges Rights Holder Institute of Oral History, The University of Texas at El Paso Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Cristóbal Borges Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Fernández, Lilia Pineda, Pedro Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2005-09-01 Language A language of the resource spa Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Institute of Oral History, The University of Texas at El Paso Subject The topic of the resource bracero Title A name given to the resource Pedro Pineda https://braceroarchive.org/files/original/ortiz_chic018_152fa8a076.mp3 a285142179c389a17df58ba76b8a4064 Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview. Velásquez, Steve Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed. Ortiz, Juana Location The location of the interview. Chicago, Illinois Original Format If the image is of an object, state the type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data Mini Disc Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 45:38 Bit Rate/Frequency Rate at which bits are transferred (i.e. 96 kbit/s would be FM quality audio) 24 bit 96 k File Name Identifier The identifier for the sound file. Ortiz_CHIC018 Additional Item Metadata The additional item metadata element set, consisting of all item elements created by an administrator and not assigned to an item type, and item elements created by plugins and not assigned to an item type or other element set. Additionally, the metadata element set that, in addition to the Dublin Core element set, was included in the `items` table in previous versions of Omeka. These elements are common to all Omeka items. title (Spanish) Spanish version of the 'title' Dublin Core field. Juana Ortiz creator (Spanish) Spanish version of the 'creator' Dublin Core field. Velásquez, Steve contributor (Spanish) Spanish version of the 'contributor' Dublin Core field. Cristóbal A. Borges Rights Holder Institute of Oral History, The University of Texas at El Paso Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Cristóbal Borges Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Velásquez, Steve Ortiz, Juana Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2005-08-31 Description An account of the resource Biographical Synopsis of Interviewee: Juana Ortíz was born on September 11, 1943, in Ocampo, Guanajuato, México; as a child she suffered a great deal, because she was born out of wedlock; consequently, she was raised by her grandmother; her mother later married and started a new life after leaving her behind; when she was sixteen years old, she married Jesús Ortíz Torres, who eventually came to the United States as a bracero; he worked in California, Idaho, Michigan, and Texas, picking cotton, cucumbers, and tomatoes; together Juana and Jesús had a family of fifteen, ten of which survived; they both emigrated to the United States, and they were able to bring their children, except for two, with them as well. Summary of Interview: Mrs. Juana Ortíz vividly describes her childhood and the troubles she faced as a child born out of wedlock; she remembers her mother tried to sell her to someone, which consequently led to her grandmother deciding to raise her; soon after, her mother married and started a new life after leaving her behind; when she was sixteen years old, she married Jesús Ortíz Torres; he struggled to find work, which led to his decision to enlist in the bracero program against her wishes; as a bracero, he worked in California, Idaho, Michigan, and Texas, picking cotton, cucumbers, and tomatoes; Juana vividly describes one instance when her husband left on a contract, and shortly thereafter she was informed that his bus had crashed and he had died; although she refused to believe any of it, after months of not hearing from him, she was beside herself with grief and started imagining him as a ghost; she explains how difficult it was for her while he was gone, not just emotionally but financially as well; about four months later she finally received a letter from him that had been written when he initially left; two days after that, he arrived home safely; she also talks about how homesick he was; working as a bracero, they barely broke even after repaying the loans they took out for him to leave in the first place; eventually, they both emigrated to the United States, and they were able to bring their children, except for two, with them as well. Language A language of the resource spa Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Institute of Oral History, The University of Texas at El Paso Subject The topic of the resource Wife of a bracero Title A name given to the resource Juana Ortiz https://braceroarchive.org/files/original/nambo_chic017_3cb1f366d8.mp3 553eb27b5557463b9ae79bcac36a391e Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview. Sifuentes, Mario Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed. Nambo, Aguileo Location The location of the interview. Chicago, Illinois Original Format If the image is of an object, state the type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data Mini Disc Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 49:04 Bit Rate/Frequency Rate at which bits are transferred (i.e. 96 kbit/s would be FM quality audio) 24 bit 96 k File Name Identifier The identifier for the sound file. Nambo_CHIC017 subject (Spanish) Bracero Additional Item Metadata The additional item metadata element set, consisting of all item elements created by an administrator and not assigned to an item type, and item elements created by plugins and not assigned to an item type or other element set. Additionally, the metadata element set that, in addition to the Dublin Core element set, was included in the `items` table in previous versions of Omeka. These elements are common to all Omeka items. title (Spanish) Spanish version of the 'title' Dublin Core field. Aguileo Nambo creator (Spanish) Spanish version of the 'creator' Dublin Core field. Sifuentes, Mario contributor (Spanish) Spanish version of the 'contributor' Dublin Core field. Cristóbal A. Borges Rights Holder Institute of Oral History, The University of Texas at El Paso Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Cristóbal Borges Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Sifuentes, Mario Nambo, Aguileo Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2005-09-01 Description An account of the resource Biographical Synopsis of Interviewee: Aguileo Nambo was born on October 15, 1941, in Cuitzeo, Michoacán, México; he was the youngest of five siblings, and his parents were farmers; when he was a child, his father worked in California and Illinois for a brief time; in approximately 1960, he enlisted in the bracero program; as a bracero he worked primarily in California, but also obtained short contracts to work in Arizona; he labored in the fields picking asparagus, broccoli, cabbage, cauliflower, cucumber, and squash; although he had no intentions of staying in the United States when the program finished, he and his family eventually emigrated in the late seventies. Summary of Interview: Mr. Nambo briefly discusses his family and adolescence; when he was about fifteen years old, he and his older brother went to pick cotton in Sonora, México, and he was able to get his military service ID early; he traveled to Empalme, Sonora, and he paid money to get his name on the county’s list of available workers; while waiting there, he endured harsh conditions, but some of the men that were not called were left without any money or way to get back home; as a bracero he worked primarily in California, but he also obtained short contracts to work in Arizona; he labored in the fields picking asparagus, broccoli, cabbage, cauliflower, cucumber, and squash; he also describes the various worksites, living conditions, provisions, payment, treatment, and remittances; moreover he details how people from a local store would send transportation to the camp on payday; working as a bracero provided him with the opportunity to help maintain his family; he becomes very emotional upon describing one instance in which he witnessed a man being severely mistreated, but he was too embarrassed to do anything; in spite of all that he suffered, his overall memories of being a bracero are positive; although he had no intentions of staying in the United States when the program finished, he and his family eventually emigrated in the late seventies. Language A language of the resource spa Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Institute of Oral History, The University of Texas at El Paso Subject The topic of the resource Bracero Title A name given to the resource Aguileo Nambo https://braceroarchive.org/files/original/mena_arizmendi_chic016_2679b7d530.mp3 85b91753f34517188993166b5295c302 Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview. Barrios, Crystal Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed. Mena Arizmendi, Guadalupe Location The location of the interview. Chicago, Illinois Original Format If the image is of an object, state the type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data Mini Disc Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 57:17 Bit Rate/Frequency Rate at which bits are transferred (i.e. 96 kbit/s would be FM quality audio) 24 bit 96 k Time Summary A summary of an interview given for different time stamps throughout the interview [Mins 0:00-1:30; Introduction and Early Life] Mena was born near Buena Vista, Baja California Sur, Mexico, on his parents’ ranch, Armella. He went to school a few days a week for a short time. His father made a modest living farming crops like corn and beans, and raising animals. [Mins 1:31-2:20; Work Experience] Mena grew up, married, and became a farmer. He bought and sold pigs and continued to farm his whole life until he worked in a butcher shop. He stopped working there when he came to the United States to live. [Mins 2:21-3:03; First Trip to the U.S.] The first time Mena came to the U.S. to as a bracero, he was processed in Empalme, Sonora, Mexico and Calexico, California. He worked in the Imperial Valley, California and was then taken to Blythe, California before returning to Mexico. [Mins 3:04-5:05; Processing Experience] Mena’s second bracero contract was processed in Monterrey, Nuevo León, Mexico. He and friends crossed the U.S.-Mexico border through Reynosa, Tamaulipas, Mexico to work on the cotton fields of Santa Rosa, California. Mena obtained a third bracero contract in Chihuahua, Chihuahua, Mexico. He explains the process of obtaining proper documentation. He says his processing experience was very nice as braceros were treated very well in Chihuahua. In California, they were treated like “slaves.” [Mins 5:06-7:05; Minnesota] After processing in Chihuahua, the braceros crossed the U.S.-Mexico border and signed their contracts in Rio Vista, California. They next headed to Minnesota. When they arrived, one employer said he needed nine workers, the exact number of people Mena was traveling with, and so his group was able to stay together. Mena said it was very relaxed and nice in Minnesota. They were completing more than one acre of agricultural work each day, earning 15 pesos per acre. On Saturdays and Sundays, they were paid 25 pesos per acre. [Mins 7:06-8:55; Minnesota Continued] Regardless of the busy work-week, Mena felt very relaxed there. He illustrates how great his employers were with stories of the great food Mena was given to eat. When their first contract in Minnesota ended, Mena and his group went to work on a cucumber farm in Minneota, Minnesota, and then went to Anoka, Minnesota to pick carrots, potatoes, beets and other crops. They had great employers and life was good for them. [Mins 8:56-10:55; Minnesota vs. Other Places] In California and Texas, the braceros were treated like slaves. They weren’t allowed to straighten up at all throughout the day and were made to never stop working. Braceros were often made to do jobs outside of their contracts, like dealing with the trash. Mena illustrates his good-natured employers at other camps with anecdotes. [Mins 10:56-13:17; Processing Continued] Being a bracero brought him security and safety. People from many towns were becoming braceros. At the processing centers, one needed to arrive well-prepared and with the proper documentation. There were so many people at the processing centers that it was almost impossible to become a bracero. [Mins 13:18-15:18; Minnesota Continued] They worked in warehouses during their first contract in Minnesota. When their contracts ended, the braceros were brought to Monterrey and were given food and means for their travels. He offers examples to illustrate how kind the people of Minnesota were. Over time, more and more “bad” people arrived in the area that made Mena believe that his positive experience was a unique one. The braceros rarely saw other Hispanics there besides themselves. He says his experience in Minnesota was so good that he did not want to go back home. [Mins 15:19-17:57; Processing Continued] His very first processing experience was full of “suffering.” For everything the braceros wanted to do or needed, they had to wait in long lines. In California, one had to wait in line from 3:00 a.m. to enter the dining hall at 4:00 a.m., when people began eating. There were more than 1,000 men eating in a single dining hall. They were given such little food, it was like they did not eat at all. He cites the braceros’ Mexican identity as the reason for this treatment. [Mins 17:58-19:47; Mexican-Mexican Tension] In California, Mexicans did not have a voice. Mena clarifies that he is not speaking badly about the gueros [Mexican slang loosely translated as “white boy” or “blondie”]. Things were always fine and calm with them. It was fellow Mexicans who did not like the braceros and treated them badly. The Mexicans did not care for each other, and subsequently everyone suffered. He notes one such example of this in an encounter he found himself in with soldiers in Irapuato, Guanajuato, Mexico. [Mins 19:48-22:30; Gang Encounter] Mena offers an anecdote on one gang encounter he had in the U.S. at his home. [Mins 22:31-23:59; Irapuato Violence] During the bracero years, violence occurred in Irapuato, Guanajuato, Mexico which necessitated government intervention. People who had the means left there. Those who depended on bracero work stayed, like Mena did. He prides himself on having always completed his contracts throughout his life. [Mins 24:00-25:10; Living in California] There were 900 people sleeping in the barracks in California, and there were always people screaming and doing drugs. Mena slept very little for the week he was in California, and so he and twelve others left the barracks and lived in a little house together. In Texas, he never experienced such living conditions as things were much calmer. [Mins 25:11-27:35; Meals in California vs. Minnesota] Mena says that living in California as a bracero meant waiting in line for food, and involved tons of braceros all pushing and getting in each others’ way. During the workday, the braceros were given water. Lunch was at noon. The braceros did not like the lunches, which included three tortillas and some pieces of bad-tasting meat. Nobody felt that they were in good health. In Minnesota, on the other hand, braceros ate whatever they wanted. [Mins 27:36-28:30; Physical Examinations in Processing] When the braceros crossed the U.S.-Mexico border, they were given medical and physical examinations. They had to completely undress to have their hands examined and have their blood taken for tests. It was pure suffering, Mena says. [Mins 28:31-30:20; Family] Mena married at the age of 18 and didn’t become a bracero until approximately age 20. The first few times he went to be processed, he was not selected to become a bracero. When he was contracted, it was only for short periods. Mena would be away from his wife three or four months at a time. When he was working in Minnesota, he did not go home for six months. When he had the money, he would send his family cards and letters. [Mins 30:21-34:20; Wages] Mena does not remember exactly what his wages were, but he knows he was paid very little. Nobody complained, but everything about that lifestyle involved suffering. With the money he earned, Mena bought a television, a radio, and clothes but did not go to bars. He did not bring clothes back to his family. Mena was sending money home about every 15 days. [Mins 34:21-36:27; Life in California] With his free time Mena would cook or leave his house for a while, but not much else. The braceros were responsible for buying all of their personal items. In California food was prepared for the braceros, and otherwise they bought food and prepared it themselves. The food given to them in California was usually not enough. Sometimes, the meat they were served was spoiled. [Mins 36:28-38:15; Hygiene] The braceros did have bathrooms when they lived in the house. The barracks in California had bathrooms as well. In California, there were about five bathrooms for the 900 men living there. The braceros did not clean at all in the barracks, and when they were living in cottages they were responsible for keeping their areas clean. [Mins 38:16-40:38; Complaints] The braceros were given about a half-hour for lunch, which was their only break during the day. Mena did not have any friends who experienced problems with their employment, and neither did he. If there ever were any problems, braceros kept it to themselves. They would come home from work exhausted at night, eat a taco for dinner, and go straight to sleep. Braceros who complained about not getting work were taken out and sent back to Mexico. [Mins 40:39-42:15; Post-Bracero Program] After Mena was done with his bracero work, he went back to work in Mexico. He started a cattle farm and started a butcher shop. He eventually came back to the United States and found a job. His wife got a visa and is also in the United States. They now have citizenship. [Mins 42:16-45:20; Retrospective Sentiments] The term “bracero,” made Mena think of his future and of working in the U.S. to make more money. “Bracero” meant ambition. In retrospect, Mena feels good about having been a bracero. When he was very young and working on his parent’s farm, he had never thought that he could be living in the United States. When he married, his feelings changed. Living with his parents meant he had never lacked anything, and marrying meant taking on the difficult obligation of caring for a wife and children. He’s known people who did not fulfill this responsibility, but he did. [Mins 46:21-48:59; Children and Grandchildren] Mena talks about his children and grandchildren. He says that he would like to return to Mexico some day. [Mins 49:00-End; Post-Bracero Continued] In general, the bracero experience was a good one. The incidences where they were suffering were just a part of the story. Mena speaks more about his children. He explains that after working as a bracero, he worked about three or four months in California before moving to Chicago. He worked there from 1976-1979 and then went back to Mexico. He talks about his various employments and about how he eventually returned to the U.S. Mena understands that his sons who do not want to come to the U.S. feel that way because they have good lives in Mexico. He tried to teach his children from young ages to work hard and about the suffering life brings. He talks about how his oldest son found a mate and had several children. He describes how he raised some of his grandchildren. File Name Identifier The identifier for the sound file. Mena_Arizmendi_CHIC016 subject (Spanish) Bracero Additional Item Metadata The additional item metadata element set, consisting of all item elements created by an administrator and not assigned to an item type, and item elements created by plugins and not assigned to an item type or other element set. Additionally, the metadata element set that, in addition to the Dublin Core element set, was included in the `items` table in previous versions of Omeka. These elements are common to all Omeka items. title (Spanish) Spanish version of the 'title' Dublin Core field. Guadalupe Mena Arizmendi creator (Spanish) Spanish version of the 'creator' Dublin Core field. Barrios, Crystal contributor (Spanish) Spanish version of the 'contributor' Dublin Core field. Cristóbal A. Borges Rights Holder Institute of Oral History, The University of Texas at El Paso Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Cristóbal Borges Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Barrios, Crystal Mena Arizmendi, Guadalupe Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2005-09-01 Description An account of the resource Biographical Synopsis of Interviewee: Guadalupe Mena Arizmendi was born on a ranch near Buenavista, Guerrero, México, on December 26, 1928; his family worked in agriculture, and he had little formal schooling; he married at age eighteen, and when he was twenty, he entered the bracero program; as a bracero he worked in California, Minnesota, and Texas, picking beets, cabbage, carrots, cotton, and potatoes. Summary of Interview: Mr. Mena recalls growing up on a small ranch where his family worked in agriculture; he only had a few years of formal schooling, because he had to help with daily chores; at age eighteen, he married, and when he was twenty, he entered the bracero program; he details what the contracting process was like in Empalme, Sonora, México, as well as in Chihuahua, Chihuahua, and Monterrey, Nuevo León, México; additionally, he states that more than twenty-five thousand men waited to be processed in those centers every day; in Irapuato, Guanajuato, México, many fights broke out amongst the men; he also describes the medical exams they were given, how they were forced to be naked, and how their hands were inspected for calluses; moreover, he discusses what his trips to the border were like and how he crossed through Calexico, California, and El Paso, Texas; he explains how employers picked workers, and what food they received at Rio Vista, a processing center in El Paso; as a bracero he worked in California, Minnesota, and Texas picking beets, cabbage, carrots, cotton, and potatoes; furthermore, he discusses his daily work and the treatment he received from employers and foremen, which was often very poor; he states what their living quarters were like, the bad food he received in California, and how he was treated well in Minnesota; consequently, he sent money to his family every fifteen days; he goes on to explain how he brought his family to the United States in the late seventies; although he suffered many hardships, he feels good about having worked as a bracero. Language A language of the resource spa Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Institute of Oral History, The University of Texas at El Paso Subject The topic of the resource Bracero Title A name given to the resource Guadalupe Mena Arizmendi https://braceroarchive.org/files/original/martinez_angel_chic015_695f94ea54.mp3 a018bb6de2622c3017e4f66984bb7833 Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview. Ubeda, Edwin R. Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed. Martínez Angel, Gabriel Location The location of the interview. Chicago, Illinois Original Format If the image is of an object, state the type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data Mini Disc Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 1:04:56 Bit Rate/Frequency Rate at which bits are transferred (i.e. 96 kbit/s would be FM quality audio) 24 bit 96 k File Name Identifier The identifier for the sound file. Martinez_Angel_CHIC015 subject (Spanish) Bracero Additional Item Metadata The additional item metadata element set, consisting of all item elements created by an administrator and not assigned to an item type, and item elements created by plugins and not assigned to an item type or other element set. Additionally, the metadata element set that, in addition to the Dublin Core element set, was included in the `items` table in previous versions of Omeka. These elements are common to all Omeka items. title (Spanish) Spanish version of the 'title' Dublin Core field. Gabriel Martínez Angel creator (Spanish) Spanish version of the 'creator' Dublin Core field. Ubeda, Edwin R. contributor (Spanish) Spanish version of the 'contributor' Dublin Core field. Cristóbal A. Borges Rights Holder Institute of Oral History, The University of Texas at El Paso Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Cristóbal Borges Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Ubeda, Edwin R. Martínez Angel, Gabriel Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2005-09-01 Description An account of the resource Biographical Synopsis of Interviewee: Gabriel Martínez Ángel was born in San Martín Texmelucan, Puebla, México, on March 24, 1938; his uncles worked as braceros in the late forties, which ultimately inspired him to do the same; in 1960, he enlisted in the bracero program, and he worked in California, Colorado, Michigan, and Texas, picking beans, beets, cucumbers, strawberries, and tomatoes; in 1970, he obtained a visa, which was later taken away from him, but he was able to help the rest of his family legally emigrate to the United States. Summary of Interview: Mr. Martínez briefly recalls his family and childhood; his uncles worked as braceros in the late forties, which ultimately inspired him to do the same; in 1960, he enlisted in the bracero program; he describes the entire process he went through both in México and in the United States, including obtaining his military ID card, getting his name on the county’s list of available workers, physical examinations, and being deloused; as a bracero he worked in California, Colorado, Michigan, and Texas, picking beans, beets, cucumbers, strawberries, and tomatoes; he goes on to detail the various worksites, duties, contract lengths, payments, deductions, housing, living amenities, provisions, remittances, and recreational activities; moreover, he relates how there were occasional problems and confrontations among workers and between workers and foremen; he also talks about celebrating Mexican holidays among themselves; Texas was the worst place for him to work, because they were treated like animals there; while working as a bracero people offered to help him gain legal status, but it never happened; consequently, he mentions that the political situation under Díaz Ordaz factored into his inability to gain legal status; he stayed in México until 1970, when he entered the United States with a visa, and he was also able to obtain visas for the rest of his family; later, he had his visa taken away from him and was sent back to México, at which point he returned to the United States illegally; he concludes by stating that the bracero program was a positive experience, because in México he did not have as many possibilities to make the same kind of money. Language A language of the resource spa Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Institute of Oral History, The University of Texas at El Paso Subject The topic of the resource Bracero Title A name given to the resource Gabriel Martínez Angel https://braceroarchive.org/files/original/loza_chic014_56bdb00905.mp3 33695469895ee5702bb70805044f05d3 Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. subject (Spanish) Bracero Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview. Loza, Mireya Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed. Loza, Juan Location The location of the interview. Chicago, Illinois Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound. Name of interviewee: Juan Loza Date of interview: August 31, 2005 Name of interviewer: Mireya Loza Name of translator: Jaclyn Martínez Hi, I am Mireya Loza. It is August 31st in Chicago and I am interviewing Juan Loza. ML: Where and when were you born? JL: October 11, 1939. ML: Speak to me about your family and the place where you were born. JL: Well, I was born in an hacienda called Maravillas [in] the municipality of Manuel Doblado in Guanajuato. My father is named Cayetano Loza Ornelas and my mother is named Lucina González Zamora. ML: What were your parents’ occupations? JL: My father cultivated the land and raised livestock—pigs, horses—of really everything that is raised on a ranch. ML: Do you come from a large family? JL: Yes. I come from a family of thirteen. One died and twelve were born—excuse me, [twelve currently] live. ML: How many brothers and sisters do you have? JL: We are six brothers and six sisters. ML: Where do your brothers and sisters live now? JL: I have one brother in Chicago. I have another brother in Atlanta, United States, and all of my sisters live in Maravillas—and my other three brothers [do] too. ML: Speak to me about when you went to school. Did you go to school, and where? JL: Well, in my infancy when I went—during the time when I was in school, my schooling was very limited. I went one year to Maravillas and another year with an ex-teacher who had been a teacher in her time, but since she was now a mother of a family, well, she did not continue to teach—but I received an additional year of school with her. ML: Did you learn to read and write? JL: Very little. Very little, and I began to practice more, really, when I needed to communicate with my parents—with my brothers and sisters—because I was no longer with them. ML: Did you work while you were studying—while you were in school? JL: Yes. There was more time working than time studying. ML: How old were you when you began to work? JL: Very little, very little—eight or nine years [old]. My father had a lot of livestock. My father sowed many crops of corn, wheat, and garbanzo, and laborers were very scarce at that time. So, he believed that it was more important to work than go to school. ML: How did you find out about the Bracero Program? JL: Well, after my father had a grand fortune—he was one of the richest [men] in El Bajío of Maravillas, municipality of Manuel Doblado—my father began to gamble [on] horse races week after week and he was [eventually] left with nothing. Economically speaking, nothing was left. Only debts were left. So by that time there were eleven of us in the family and my father had to leave the house during the day because when debtors weren’t after him in the morning, they were after him in the afternoon or midday. So then, since I was the oldest, I was faced with the necessity to work—to ask for loans, to ask people to help me so that my brothers at least had tortillas to eat during the day. So, living in deep poverty, I asked the chairman of Manuel Doblado to give me a number—in other words, a space to come as a bracero to the United States. Although I was very young, necessity motivated me to take the initiative to leave my parents, my mother, my brothers and sisters, and, well, to take my chances. ML: And who was the first person who told you about the program? JL: Well, my godfather who was named Camilo Loza—my father’s cousin—had been a bracero, and since I had had a very beautiful relationship with my godfather since I was a boy—[I was] a young man at that time—he told me: “Maybe one day you can go to the United States, godson. I ask God a lot [for that] because I know that you will be a help—a [source of] support for my comadre [mother of one’s godchild] and for your brothers and sisters.” ML: How old were you? JL: Well, it was 1957 when my godfather began to tell me that, because he saw that there was a strong need and he tried to motivate me [to become a bracero]. And by that time—well I was born in 1939, [so] I was . . . let’s say eleven . . . eighteen years old . . . seventeen [years old]. ML: And did your godfather live on the same ranch [as you]? JL: No. My godfather lived in Manuel Doblado. We lived on the ranch. ML: And how was his experience? Did he talk to you about his experience as a bracero? JL: Well, it’s because the braceros . . . he told me that if one had [a good] body—they would arrange the work according to the physical fitness of your body. If you had [special] abilities, [they would arrange the work] the same way. And if you hadn’t had schooling, and you didn’t have a [good] body, it was logical that you were going to come work, well, [work] hard. ML: Were you married at that time? JL: No. ML: Had you ever thought about the United States prior to that time? JL: No. Prior to that time, no. ML: What were your means? [What were] your expectations of the program? JL: Well, my expectations were only that if I could work in México, I could work in the United States and from there I could give my brothers and my mother a better life. And why not? Well, I was young, my clothes were completely worn, and why shouldn’t I buy myself new clothes? ML: Did your family influence your decision in any way? Your mother, brothers, sisters . . . what did they think? JL: Well, my mother did not [influence my decision]. Well, after the chairman who was my father’s compadre [friend], I got all my advice from my grandfather. When I got the number that [the chairman] gave me to come and try my luck at the contracting center in Monterrey, I talked to my dad and he said: “Well, here are three things. I will not stop you; I will not help you; I will not give you money. If you are in a position to do it, [then] do it.” [I answered]: “That’s good. I want your blessing and I want your [good] wishes.” He says: “That, I will give you.” So, in that time five pesos were worthless, not to mention what was needed to come [to the United States] in that time. Well, 1,000 pesos were needed at minimum for passage [to the United States], and you didn’t know if luck was on your side—whether you would be able to be contracted in the United States or not. So one had to at least have 200 extra pesos in case you weren’t contracted for some reason—so that you could return again to your place of origin. ML: Describe the contracting process. So the chairman helped you get a number, and then what happened? JL: Well, when I no longer had any alternatives and when I no longer had anyone who would help me economically I turned to my grandfather. My grandfather said: “With happiness! 1,000 pesos for me is nothing and I am going to lend them to you without deadline, without interest, and you pay me when you can.” So I had the 1,000 pesos [and] I felt supported. I went back and told the chairman that I was ready. We came to the contracting center in Monterrey, Nuevo León. In that time 1,500 braceros from the municipality of Manuel Doblado, Guanajuato went [to the contracting center]. We left one night at 10 p.m. About twenty full busses came directly to here. They put about ninety people in them even though the capacity was about forty-five or fifty passengers. We [were so full that we] even had to ride on the bus railing, on top. I think that about twenty of us came on top and it was a long—well, a lot of time. It takes about four and a half hours to get from Manuel Doblado to Monterrey, and we arrived in Monterrey in those conditions. In Monterrey all the lists from the different states arrived, and we had to wait there for almost a month to be contracted. So, I didn’t have any experience. I didn’t know. I came [as if I was] blindfolded, blind. How could I have had a better opportunity? The idea came to me that if I got closer or if I stuck with people who had come before—one, two, three or four times—well, then I would be better oriented. In that way I stayed close to those people and I stayed close to a man who had already come seven times. They called him El Güero [The Light-skinned Man]. He was from a ranch in La Calzada. So, he told me, “Come. Come, young man. I am going to take you to a place where it will be very nice for us.” So, like I told you, we waited in Monterrey about a month. ML: And what did you all do during that month? What was your life like during that month? JL: Well, from the first night I arrived in Monterrey, many men left. They went to a hotel; many went to the cabarets. What do I know? . . . to drink beer, to the restaurants, to dance with waitresses or things like that. And since my thoughts and my economic opportunities were very scarce, what I did was that . . . from the second night I got there . . . the first day I slept [in a place] that had cardboard walls and a cardboard roof close to a small restaurant. They sold—there, the lady—[sold] rice with beans and tortillas only. That was all that that lady sold. So she sold me a cardboard box where they [had] packed eggs for one peso [Mexican currency] at that time, and I stayed there the first day, and the second day I asked the woman whether I could help her in some way—that I intended to work because the lists were drawn [only] until noon. The lists were drawn from nine in the morning until twelve in the afternoon. If the list in which you were listed didn’t come, you had to wait until another day to see if list came out—the next day and successively like that, day after day, day after day. So, since I didn’t want to spend the few cents I had (because I couldn’t, but I didn’t owe [anyone]) . . . so I helped the lady clean beans, wash dishes, put aside what she needed for the rice, and things like that in that style—clean a space [for her], take out the trash. And then the lady let me stay there free of charge, but I had to cover myself with cardboard and lay myself down on another piece of cardboard. ML: And when they finally called you, what happened? JL: Well, on the day that our list was passed, they gave us a physical examination there. And they checked our documents to make sure that they agreed with the documents that they had gotten from us the first moment we enlisted in Manuel Doblado. So, after we passed the physical examination we were subjected to a liquid and powder disinfection to disinfect our bodies so that we wouldn’t bring germs to the border of the United States and México. So we stayed another week on the border, which was Piedras Negras, because a lot of men leave from the contracting center in Piedras Negras [it was a heavily populated contracting center]. There, they examined [everything], even to the point of examining what we had eaten the month before! A lot—an exam very meticulous with a lot of mistrust and at times even with cruelty—I can tell you that! ML: Why cruel? JL: Well, because the doctors examined an average of three thousand people a day. Imagine! If a doctor doesn’t have the patience to examine a patient when he has already examined four, five, six, or ten during the day, [imagine] how it is when he has examined thousands! Of course this doctor is already sick of it. He’s already overloaded with the work and [so] he’s going to do it reluctantly, without paying much attention. So when you pass the physical examination—in the hands of the doctor—they do the same process to you that they did in Monterrey—they do it again. They take off all of your clothes, they bathe you with disinfectants—with powders and a series of things that make me sad to even mention. So they requested 500, 400, 200, 80 [men] . . . whatever the ranchers who were going to contract braceros in Piedras Negras requested. So since I already had that comfort, or that support, with that man who had come many times, I would tell myself: well, if it takes a day, if it takes two, or if it takes a month, I have hope that we will go to a place where we will have a good experience. Because in that time, many braceros were really failures after one month, two months, or three months . . . failures because what they paid them . . . what they paid us . . . . what they paid them was a miserable amount. It was about 25 cents an hour to come and uproot [ourselves]—to come cultivate land from the ground up. So those people never paid [the braceros] for what they had collected [during the day]. They were the unsuccessful braceros. So I didn’t want to be one of those unsuccessful braceros. That’s why I looked for support. I looked for a guiding light. So we stayed for almost a week in Piedras Negras until one day at nine at night they announced via the loudspeaker that they needed 200 irrigators. The man told me: “Come with me. Come. Let’s go.” We went at that time and the next day at six in the morning we left to come work in a little town close to Lubbock, Texas. Lubbock, Texas is next to La Mesa, Abilene, Littlefield, and in that county—of course, it was a dry county in that time in which even a drop of alcohol was illegal in public. But it was a very good place because everything that is produced in that county needs irrigation so there is work at good pay. Since I came especially for irrigation, I made 55 cents an hour, but I worked 24 hours, 7 days a week. ML: You didn’t rest on Sunday? JL: No. There wasn’t any rest because when the irrigation season began . . . it had to be between the first day of February and the tenth day. From the first to the tenth of February it started and the cutting [harvesting season] was from the first of August until the tenth day of August. The irrigation season ended because if it was onions, they were harvested, if it was watermelon, it was harvested, and if it was cotton, the soil had to be given time to dry so that the cotton-picking could begin. ML: And what was the daily routine in Lubbock, Texas? JL: Well, my routine was . . . it was that we . . . the ranch was close to the barracks. The barracks were where we slept—where we made ourselves food. It was a place sort of like this room—like thirty by forty, something like that, where we had approximately 150, 180 braceros. So we had to make our food there, wash ourselves, personal cleanliness . . . we had to do it for our check. It was very hard because in that time, well, there was no free time. We had to take our clothes—and we were over there flooded with water—we would wash our clothes ourselves there and in the same place we would hang them out to dry in a small tree or a rock or in a tube, in whatever there was. There one would have to dry [the clothes] week after week and day after day. That’s how it was. And the food that we made was to eat in the moment. We never made food to last us for two meals, no. In that time what helped us was that . . . well they paid us very little per hour . . . but they also didn’t charge us light, we didn’t pay for the gas, we didn’t pay rent and we would eat an average charge of $10 dollars, $12 dollars per week. ML: How long were you in Lubbock? JL: I was in Lubbock, Texas for three years. [19]60 . . . from [19]60 to [19]62 . . . [19]60, [19]61, and [19]62. ML: Did you return to México during that time? JL: Yes. I returned during those three years. I returned to México two times. But the boss would give me a special card which I used like a passport. I never had problems with Immigration—that they would pass me. Yes, yes they would stop me. They would search me, but with that card I was free to roam all over Texas. ML: And why did you go the first time? JL: Well, the first time when I went to México, my mother asked me to. My mother found herself to be a little ill and she demanded that I come. She told me: “If I gave you my consent in one day for you to come to the United States, now in the same manner I tell you that I want to see you. I want you to come whether it be one day, whether it be two days, whether it be a week or whether it be two, whatever you can do, but I want you to come.” And since I very much respect the decisions of a parent . . . well, with the same attention with which she had given me her consent and her blessing to come on one occasion, I returned. I returned for two weeks and I came to work again with the same boss doing the same work. ML: And when you were in the United States in Lubbock, Texas, how would you communicate with your mother and your family? JL: Only through letters because in that time there was no phone, not even in León, Guanajuato. ML: And after those three years in Lubbock, why did you decide to leave Lubbock and look for another job? JL: Well, when I . . . there were two very very big reasons that I felt disdainful, that I felt disappointed with that place. One: In 1961 when it began to turn cold around the beginning of December, none of us had sufficient clothing to withstand the cold. So I asked the boss to take me to buy clothes, and he told me, “I am going to take you and I am going to tell you how to return on the bus, but I cannot wait for you.” “Good, that’s fine,” I say, “after all, I’ll come back on the bus.” So I bought my clothes. I bought a radio. I was so happy because I had a radio and because I had bought new clothes [but] I was very cold and they had packed my clothes in a box in the store. When I arrived at the bus station I felt very cold and I said, “I am going to buy a ticket and then I am going to drink a coffee.” I bought the ticket for Anton, Texas, which was the little town where I lived, and I couldn’t stand the cold any longer. Well, I am not used to the cold. So I went to the restaurant and I asked the lady who worked behind the counter to sell me a coffee. She says: “Can you read that poster?” And I almost suspected [that she was joking] because I didn’t speak English. So I tell her: “Can you give me a coffee please?” Then she tells me, “I am telling you that I can’t sell you a coffee.” And I thought that she was joking. So I showed her a dollar and I told her, “Excuse me, I thought I had American money and that American money could buy whatever I wanted in the United States, but I see that my dollar is different.” At the moment that I said that, the security guard came—he was really a very big güero because I didn’t even reach his shoulder. He had . . . I remember it as if it was today. He was dressed like a cowboy and he had boots with iron spurs, and he told me: “Come with me, please” [said in English]. I still don’t forget that word. I never will forget it. So he took me out to the middle of the street and he tells me, “You want to buy coffee? You have to walk three blocks over here and two blocks over there. They will sell you coffee there, but you’ll get something other than coffee if you keep bothering us. I’ll gonna kick you again [said in English].” So he kicked me three times in the behind [so hard] that I couldn’t even sit to do my necessities six weeks later. That was one disappointment. So since all of the other braceros had gone and I was the only one who was left, the boss took me to live in a very small house. But only morenos [dark-skinned people] lived there. Then some of the morenos started to ask me to lend them a dollar . . . to lend them a dollar and I lent it to them. Then one day it happened that they asked me for three dollars and I didn’t have it because I had just bought my provisions for the week, I had just gave everything to my mom and I didn’t have money. That’s why I didn’t give it to them. It was around seven at night when they asked me [for the money]. He asked me for the money and he returned around eleven at night with other morenos and they started to bang hard on my door with some iron rails. The door was made of iron. Then I was so scared. And behind the room where I lived there was a canal. So I ran away with little clothing—nothing more than my shirt and underwear, without shoes and without anything. I ran away; I threw myself out the back window and I threw myself into the water in the canal and I crossed through about a mile of the irrigated land and I knocked on my boss’s father’s house. He understood . . . came with me to the house . . . we found the house totally—the door had fallen, the house [was] ransacked, they overturned everything. Well I didn’t have anything. I didn’t have anything. They took the radio I had bought and I said: “I’m leaving.” And the next day I grabbed my things and I left, and until later . . . I said that I would not return to Texas because if they had gotten me I wouldn’t be here today, here, in this interview. So then I was contracted again in Empalme, Sonora to go to California. ML: Did you have brothers who were braceros also? JL: Oh, when I went to California I took my oldest brother so that we could help our family a little bit; they needed the help. He was very small, but I said, “Well, if we both get to go, it will be easier to help my mom.” ML: How much older than you was your oldest brother? JL: Four years. ML: And then, when you both came the second time, what happened? JL: Well . . . ML: Well, second place for you. JL: Well, when we . . . they said that there would be braceros again—we didn’t even know where. We signed up and it was [either] luck or something from the top government officials that in that time they sent people to Monterrey or to Empalme, Sonora. Those were the two centers which were in a government camp. Both centers were inside a government military camp. So I signed up and I signed Manuel up, my brother, the oldest of the boys, but he is much smaller than me. Then we came over here to Empalme and it took almost two months for us to be contracted for California. ML: Where did you both go in California? JL: My brother got Stockton, California and I got Sacramento. ML: And you couldn’t pick a place to go together? JL: No because they gave you a number when you entered the contracting [center]. They gave you a number and the number wasn’t drawn until you got there. But when you arrived at the center in Mexicali, they would say from such number to such number . . . if mine was an even [number], I would go with the even [numbers] and if my brother’s number was an odd [number], he would go with the odd [numbers]. So any which way we couldn’t be together. For that you would need a lot of experience. If I would have been a bracero with a lot of experience I would have put another person in between my brother and me so that the numbers would have been in pairs . . . the numbers that we both got. ML: And what did you tell your brother before coming as a bracero? What did you explain to him? JL: Well, I didn’t talk to him about my bad experiences. I didn’t tell him that the morenos had made me run away. I didn’t tell him that the güeros had kicked me. I didn’t tell him things like that to discourage him. I talked to him about, well: “We are going so that you can have new clothes and we are going so that you can help me work,” and that’s it. ML: And then, when you arrived in California . . . what did you do in California? JL: Well, I thought that . . . I thought that it would go very well for us in California because they would say that many [braceros] went there . . . my grandfather never came. And they said that there were many pochos [Americanized Mexicans or Americanized Mexican Americans] . . . many Mexican Americans . . . and they said that we wouldn’t suffer because of our language over there. But the biggest disappointment of my life that I took was that . . . because in California . . . There was a lot of mistreatment over there. Why? Because those same pochos would act as if they were foremen taking care of the braceros . . . working with the braceros from sunrise to sunset. In that time the furrows in which we worked thinning beets, thinning lettuce, [working] with asparagus, [the furrows] were a mile long. Throughout the whole mile we had to be bent over with a hoe—twelve inches from start to finish—and we couldn’t get up because there were about three fieldbosses. To me, they were not fieldbosses; they were foremen behind us, and we couldn’t [get up] for any reason. They simply sent you back to México again if you didn’t obey them. ML: What did you do there? JL: Like I said, like I mentioned before . . .I was working with beets, thinning, with asparagus, with celery, and afterwards picking onions, picking tomatoes . . . and that’s where I felt . . . well, when I was picking onions, I didn’t have a fieldboss anymore because my hands were what followed me . . . they and the longing to earn more money were my fieldboss. Out of 2,700 braceros, I got first place in onions and they gave me $1,000 for first place. I didn’t know that. Many [braceros] that had been picking onions in those camps for years knew that. I didn’t know that. When they told me, I was surprised. ML: And how did one win those $1,000 dollars? JL: For example, they paid us per basket of picked onions—not the ripe ones, because the ones that were ripe had to be cut. They [the picked onions] were for the market; they were picked . . . picked [while they were] green. The top leaf and bottom root had to be cut with scissors. They were for the market. But the onions that we picked in that time were to be put in bottles, for canneries, for restaurants, and for . . . to sell in bags. They paid us thirteen cents per small basket and in that time there were some [braceros] that didn’t even make enough money to cover lunch, because they didn’t throw themselves into their work, because they were lazy in other words. But I was very motivated to make money [and] to work, and in that time I picked at least 250 small baskets, but at all hours of the day I [sweat so much that] I had to wring my clothes out. I got first place in tomatoes. I won a prize of $480-$545 every two weeks, which in that time was a lot of money. It wasn’t easy. It was a lot of work. ML: And then during that time, did you keep communicating with your mother via letters? JL: Yes. That yes. We communicated every eight days. Every eight days a letter would arrive because I would write to my mom every eight days and put what I could contribute. Every fifteen days I sent her money because I didn’t receive payment before, but yes, every fifteen days I sent my mom everything I could. ML: And during that time, did you work seven days a week, or how many days a week did you work? JL: Depended . . . depended. During onion picking time we worked seven days a week. When I worked with the tomatoes we only worked six days a week, but since I wanted to earn an extra pound, I stayed in the evening after picking time to load the buses with the boxes of tomatoes. And there were times when we couldn’t pick all of the tomatoes on Saturday and we had to return to work on Sunday. ML: And did you always receive your wages every fifteen days from your job? Did you ever have a problem with your wages? JL: In Texas I didn’t have a problem. In California, I did because, well, like any other job for money, if it’s by contract, well, you need to keep a log of basically what you did per day, what you did per week, what you did per two weeks. If it’s hourly, you do the same thing. So, for example, [when I worked] with the onions, I was short twenty or thirty baskets everyday. They gave us a card, and that card had numbers. So the field boss or field bosses would punch [a hole in] the card to mark the number of baskets a person had. So I was always short everyday. So they said that you couldn’t make claims to the company or to the center there. You had to do it in the contracting center. But how? How could we make claims when it took two days to get to the contracting center? Logically it was better to stay with that job and with that money because there wasn’t any other alternative. What’s more, those who clung or got on the bad side of the fieldbosses were told: “Your work—your work has finished. Your contract has finished,” and their work would end there. On the other hand, if they didn’t cut your contract [short], they left you in the field [saying], “We don’t need you today. Stay ready for tomorrow.” Tomorrow would come and the second day they wouldn’t pick him up again. When a week would pass and they hadn’t picked up that poor bracero to take him to work, he logically had to grab his few clothes and go back again to México. ML: How long were you in California? JL: I was in California for a year. A year. We returned to México toward the end of [19]63. ML: And then what did you do when you returned to México? JL: When I returned to México I thought that the bad spell of poverty had passed because my brother and I accumulated some few cents and began to work. I planted about forty hectares of wheat and the wheat was growing super well. And March 19th, a frost fell and it froze all the way to the bottom and I was left again with zero [money]. At least I didn’t owe anyone anything. So I said to my brother, “Well now we have more reason to go to the contracting [center]. Let’s go to the contracting [center].” He says, “And, to where?” I tell him, “I know someone that is an attorney and he is sending people for 500 pesos. You just present yourself in Monterrey. It has to be in Monterrey.” He says: “Yeah, well let’s go.” I went to the notary who had the contacts with those from the center . . . because the government and the manipulators become involved in this and there were a lot of traps. There was a lot of manipulation of . . . it’s because when you arrived at the contracting center in Monterrey, two or three people came with the same number. It would be logical that none of them went [because] they weren’t going to pass two or three people with the same number. [But] the one with the least influence went back to his house. So on that occasion I told the notary that he was going to give me a guarantee that I would enter the United States. If not, I wouldn’t give him the money. He said, “That’s fine. I will guarantee it.” “How?” [I ask]. He says, “No. Well, I will guarantee it.” I tell him, “That’s fine. I am going to give you 1,000 pesos when I am contracted on the other side in the United States.” I gave him 1,000 pesos for my part and for my brother. So we came to Monterrey and the next week we were already at the contracting center in Piedras Negras and we came to work in Arkansas. We were in Arkansas for four months and we were in Saginaw, Michigan for six months. ML: And what did you do in Arkansas? JL: In Arkansas I worked with the tractors, cultivating . . . cultivating soybeans, cultivating corn, and cultivating the nut garden. Since at that time my brother didn’t know how to drive tractors or machinery, well, he had to clean [it] because he didn’t have another . . . or helping me oil the tractors or helping me like my assistant because he didn’t know how yet. ML: And why did they give you permission to drive the tractors? Did they let many braceros drive tractors? JL: No, no. Not everyone. Rather they gave you a card and when I was contracted for the first time to go irrigate they were forced to give you permission to drive tractors—to drive pick-ups [said in English], to drive a van or to drive a bus—because when we irrigated we had to carry some plates in the van to block the ditches or the sprinklers, or the canals of water. We had to carry sandbags; we had to carry aluminum pipes to pass the canal water to the planted [area]. And then that card was valid all over the United States. With that card . . . what’s more, with that card I would get paid the cost of an operator no matter where I worked. ML: And were there United States-born operators doing the same work? JL: Well, yes. Yes there were. There were ranchers who worked. Sometimes the woman, sometimes the man, but they worked two or three hours. I was working for two months with two tractors. I drove one and I let go of the other one ahead of where I was fallowing land. Not during the fallowing . . . during the first crop which is done to the land to seed it. You put a brake on the steering wheel of the tractor which was working by itself so that it gave a circular turn, and that was how they worked. And I worked on top of one and always taking care that the other was ahead of me. Yes, I didn’t only earn [a wage] from the one I was driving, but also from the other one that I took care of, and sometimes I worked fourteen, sometimes fifteen, sometimes twelve hours. ML: And why did you leave Arkansas? JL: Well, when the crop ended in Arkansas, the only thing left to do was to distil the rice crop fields [or] wait for the nut harvest or soybean harvest. So with that, well, they didn’t offer many [work] hours anymore. There wasn’t a large expectation anymore to earn good money. Then they posted a notice downtown saying that there was a need to come work cucumber crops in Saginaw, Michigan. So my brother said, “Well I want to get to know Michigan. If you don’t want to go, I’m [still] going to go.” So then I said, “No. Well I won’t let you go alone.” He was very small. [I said], “I will go too,” because if not, my mom will die thinking that I left him alone. So for that reason we came to Saginaw, Michigan. In Saginaw we began to cultivate cucumbers, then to pick them, [then] to take them to where they prepare them to bottle them . . . and like that, until the season ended close to February or January. ML: Did you work every day of the week in Arkansas and Michigan, or how many days did you work? JL: In Arkansas I worked six days. Sometimes when I worked repairing tractors or leaving the machinery ready so that I could start early on Monday, I had to work on Sunday because the boss didn’t like that I would take two hours on Monday to oil the tractor or to put the equipment on the tractor or things like that. He liked for me to start working before six in the morning and he didn’t care how that happened. ML: And in Michigan how many days a week did you work? JL: Only six days in Michigan but there was not an eight-hour-only schedule, no. It was from light until dark. ML: And what did you do on your day off? JL: I spent my day off only washing my clothes, preparing food, cleaning the room in which I slept and everything . . . in writing to my mother or reading a letter. ML: You never went out? (interview interrupted) ML: My name is Mireya Loza. I am interviewing Juan Loza. It is August 23, 2005 in Chicago. I was asking you earlier what you did on your day off, and whether you went out. Did you ever leave your room or the area in which you worked? JL: While I was in Texas I never went to the movies or to a dance hall or went around town. I only went to buy clothes or buy food. That’s it. But for me to say, “today I am going to this party, today I’m going to this rodeo, or to this party of such and such” . . . no. During all that time I absolutely deprived myself of fun things. I never went to the movies. ML: And in Michigan or in Arkansas you didn’t have a chance to do anything else? JL: I never even had the opportunity to say, “I will pass a night dancing, singing, drinking,” or things like that in anyplace at anytime that I was contracted because during that time that I was a bracero . . . I am not a liar or an exaggerator . . . I never even drank one beer. ML: And when you lived in Michigan and Arkansas what were the places like where you lived? JL: Well, in Arkansas I—we lived in a very rotten small house . . . very small. There were rats below because they used half the house to put seeds to sow the next year or to put fertilizers or to put tractor fuel [or] threshing machines and things like that. The boss saw it as nothing [not a big deal]. I came to see that even their dog during that time had a new house and I saw [that the dog got] about three [more] new houses during the time that I was there; and during the time it was cold, it lived in their [the boss’] own house. But on the other hand, we, well, didn’t have that opportunity. We didn’t have that ability. We had to cover ourselves. I remember it as if it was now. They gave us some blankets that the Army [said in English] uses—green ones—and when some braceros started to leave because their work had ended, some left the blankets, and I picked them up. We needed them to cover us. ML: And what did you eat in these different places? JL: Well, when I was in Texas . . . after a year I was already annoyed by the small cakes or the Bimbo bread or things like that because I was accustomed to the tortilla. So I went to the store and a friend told me, “this is flour dough.” I tell him, “What is it for?” He says, “to make tortillas.” “Oh,” I say, “well, I am going to take it to make tortillas.” So it occurred to me to bring two small bags of flour dough with the intention of making tortillas but when I had kneaded the dough and I wanted to make tortillas, well, I couldn’t. ML: Why not? JL: Because, well, I didn’t know how. My hands were rough. My fingers were stiff and I couldn’t make the tortillas. Then my friend tells me, “And now what? Are you going to eat the dough by force, or what?” I tell him, “No.” I tell him, “I have to find an idea from my repertory [experience] as to how I am going to make these tortillas.” So, we had bought a tin of coffee, and I said, “This tin will be of use to make tortillas.” I put a plastic [sheet on it] and [got] the dough ball and cut it like a glass with a wooden tool that was scattered close by. I made a big ball; I did it as if it was a rasero [utensil that smoothes flour], and the tin of coffee was my tortilla press because from there in front I could make the tortillas. (laughs) ML: Yeah . . . and what did you eat in California? JL: Well, in California . . . ML: Did they give you food? JL: They boarded us; they boarded us [they served us food]. But they would make the sandwich as early as the night before and it was really hot, so when one ate it the next day, well, the ham was tart. It was already rotten and the lettuce, well, it was as rotten as the ham in the sandwich. So that’s why I brought my lunch from the beginning. After a while I didn’t take it. I would rather come . . . until the evening came to eat at the house rather than [eat] at the ranch where they boarded us. ML: And in Arkansas and Michigan what did you make? JL: In Arkansas he [the boss] went to buy food, and it was a very expensive store. So, the first time I started to . . . I began to buy things that I saw the boss buying. On that occasion we spent about $50 for my brother and me. I said, “No. Well, I will not do that again.” Then I said, “Now I have to make up the money . . . the lost time,” and I began to . . . we started to eat only potatoes and beans and then later, well, since with eating potatoes and beans the $10 covered us very well, it was better to eat potatoes and beans. ML: And in Michigan? JL: In Michigan . . . when, when we went to Michigan a food store was very near us and my brother had a good appetite—well he was young, everything was new. He always spent his $10 a week for food; during the week he sometimes spent $12, $13, or $14 on cakes, sodas, bread, and that’s how he spent double what I spent. ML: And what happened after Michigan? Did you return to México? JL: Yes. I thought . . . well, our boss in Michigan helped us to get permanent residency but when we told my dad and mom that we were going to get our permanent residency—there in the same place you could apply for residency—my dad and mom didn’t want to. They said that if we got our residency they would lose us and we wouldn’t return to see them and they didn’t want us to get our residency. So we left because the Bracero Program contract between the United States government and the Mexican government ended. ML: And I’m going to ask a series of questions about the program. Did you make longtime friends during the years you were in the United States with the other braceros? JL: Well, very few. Very few because if you wanted to . . . you couldn’t make longtime friends because of the ranchers’ strategies. The more workers who worked together, the more they [the ranchers] felt prohibited from treating them [the braceros] badly or treating them . . . or working them at inappropriate schedules [times of day] or six days a week; because among—let’s say, among ten braceros it’s logical that all ten braceros won’t have the same intentions or the same ambitions or the same availability to dedicate themselves to work. So that’s why the smaller the number of braceros the ranchers had, the easier it was for them to direct them at their whim. ML: At one time did Mexican authorities go to the place where you worked? JL: No. ML: No? JL: No. Mexican authorities never went to workplaces. ML: And did the bosses contract any an illegal [undocumented person] who was not formally part of the Bracero Program? JL: Yes, there were some. There were some at that time. There were already illegals. What happened was . . . a thing in that time . . . since it was very easy to cross into the United States . . . well, those that didn’t want to come, didn’t. Because I crossed when I already had permission as a bracero. I crossed at nine at night. I came to cross the line. They didn’t ask me for anything. You only paid ten cents—afterwards it was twenty cents—and that’s all. I got the bus to where I was going and Immigration never checked me or anything like that. So in that time, those that wanted [to come], well, they came, and without any—without a lot of problems because after you paid the quota on the bridge, they didn’t say anything to you. ML: Did you ever have a problem at work? JL: Well, only the problem where the morenos made me run away—only from that. But when I worked in Arkansas . . . the day that I told my boss that I was going to Michigan he owed me [money for] seven workdays. So when he was going to take me to the bus stop I tell him: “I’m lacking seven workdays.” He says: “No. I’m even with you. I don’t ask you for [money] as credit, in the same way that I don’t ask you to work and then pay you afterward. I pay you beforehand.” I say: “No. Don’t start with those tricks. You pay me for my work. If you don’t pay me, the government will, but [you should] pay me.” And he said that he wouldn’t pay me. I went to Saginaw and he sent me a check for the seven day [pay] that he owed me. ML: And what would happen in the case of an accident or illness? JL: (laughs) Well, in the contract they gave you . . . they gave you some sheets [of paper]—which for me was nothing because in those sheets it said that they were going to give you 400 pesos for a finger; they would give you $1,000 if you lost the five; they would give you $1500 if you lost your arm. But the thing was that it wasn’t even in Spanish; it was in English. Who would defend themselves? Who would they pay or who would they charge? I saw several foot injuries, hand injuries—cut [hands]—but here . . . how did they charge [someone for the loss] if you didn’t know how to defend yourself? So you automatically played dumb . . . like, if they don’t see you, if they don’t see the signs, well then they don’t know what you want to say. ML: Did you get sick at any point? JL: Only from gum pain in Texas, and for that—the boss was very considerate—he didn’t let me work for three days. The same day that I told him that my gums hurt, he took me to the dentist. They took out two [teeth] and the boss’ wife came to see me that night to bring me some pills . . . because they had called the dentist to ask if he would give me something for the pain, and so . . . that boss paid a lot of attention [to us]. I don’t think I was sick anymore in the United States. ML: And in the places where you worked, did they have radios from time to time? You had said that you all bought a radio. Did you listen to the radio a lot? JL: No. We didn’t listen a lot because in Texas almost all the programs at that time were in English. There were times that the only thing you could hear in Spanish were [announcements for?] dances that the people most influential people were going to have. There was a commercial and they started to play, well, half of a song or about two or three phrases of the song and that’s it; but they only did it as commercials. The only station that you could hear in Texas at that time was the Harlingen station. You could hear that, but only during the day. At night you couldn’t hear it anymore. At two in the morning another program called the May Laboratories started and it was followed by a program from Villa Acuña; each program was for an hour and that was it. ML: Did you all—the braceros—celebrate Holy Week or Christmas or 16th of September in these various locations? JL: None of that. ML: No. Did you return to México when your contract ended . . . the last contract in Michigan? JL: Yes. ML: Did your boss arrange transportation to return to México? JL: Yes. ML: After you finished your work contract how difficult was it to get a new contract? Well, the last one was because the program had ended, right? JL: They didn’t have it anymore. From the moment the agreement between the United States government and the Mexican government ended, they didn’t legally have any work agreement anymore. ML: And when did you return to the United States again? Which year? JL: Well, we stayed in the same situation because as the family keeps growing so do their desires—the illusions of a better future. Although my mom knew we were very poor she never lost her dreams to educate someone in the family; that goal never left her mind. So when I returned, I put myself in charge of caring for my mom’s mom and one of my sisters. So I began to buy livestock—[of] cows, pigs, chickens, of everything—and it began to go very well. I accumulated a small amount of capital so I thought that I didn’t need to return to the United States anymore. But in [19]66, my grandmother died and I no longer had control of or motivation to keep working in México because everything turned out bad for me. I bought a few oxen—they robbed them from me. I tried to get my passport in order. On the day that I was about to receive my visa . . . an uncle helped me; he bought me my letter of support; I applied in the embassy in México and my application was accepted, but the day that I was going to get my visa . . . the law changed that day to say that if you didn’t have your income tax form you couldn’t get a visa. And since I had worked as a bracero, I did not have any forms. I didn’t even know what they were talking about—that income tax form. So for me my wings were torn off and things started to go wrong. My mom was sick; they robbed me; I made bad deals; I was left with nothing economically and from what I thought I had in capital . . . . not even a hangover was left because I didn’t even drink. So I said, “I will go to the United States. I will go illegally.” And so I told my brother but by then he was already married, he already had two children, and [so] he didn’t want to come anymore. So then I told one of my other brothers [and he] said, “I will go.” “Well, we’ll go,” [I said]. We came illegally. My uncle sent us the name of a coyote, the name of a hotel where we had to get to, and then the hardest part for me was the day in which the one who was a smuggler, or the coyote appeared. He says, “I am going to smuggle fifty [people] tonight but I only want to have an agreement with one of you.” So, I don’t know why they saw me as the leader or I don’t know—maybe it’s because I talk too much. They said that I should be the one. He said, “So [said in English], when we leave from the hotel I am going to collect a third of what you all will pay me here when we get in the car; on the other side [of the border] you all will give [me] the other third and when I take you to the destination, you all will complete the payment.” So when I gave him the money . . . before I gave him all of our money, he gave me a 38 Super [pistol] and he says, “You are responsible. You have the money, right?” I said, “yes.” [He said,] “you are going to answer to them—to all of them and to me [if anything happens] to that money. That’s why I am giving you this so that you can defend yourself. So we left at ten at night from the hotel and at two in the morning we were, well, we were crossing the river. When we got out of the river . . . he had already told me, “if we see someone and if you don’t shoot him, I will shoot you.” I tell him, “that’s fine.” So when we got out of the river there was a big slope and there were some drug smugglers there and I saw them suddenly and I shot twice and he says: “Stop your bullshit already. Don’t make noise. Don’t make noise.” I said, “well what was our deal? What is our agreement?” He said, “okay.” He says, “okay, okay, alright.” So . . . how much did we walk? It must have been about a kilometer; it was already close to four in the morning. He tells me that he wants the money. I told him: “I’m not even going to give you a penny.” He said: “you’re going to give me the money.” I said: “I told you that I am not even going to give you a penny.” He said: “Well if you don’t give me the money, give me the gun.” So then I get much closer to him and I told him: “If you want it I’ll give it to you while its shooting. Do you want it?” “No,” [he said]. I said: “Well then, we’ve reached an agreement. Go away. We’ll go ahead.” We came to Chicago. I brought my very young brother. ML: Which brother? JL: Pedro. So then I started to have a hard time getting him work because he was so young and . . . ML: And why did you come to Chicago? JL: Because one of my dad’s brother’s was here and we thought we’d find support in him, find help like we did. ML: And why did your uncle come to Chicago? JL: My uncle came illegally to Chicago in [19]56 and after he returned illegally he got married. And his wife’s brothers had immigrated [to the United States]. After two years of marriage, her brothers helped my uncle emigrate. ML: And were her relatives in Chicago? JL: Yes, yes. His wife’s relatives were in Chicago. They helped my uncle and my uncle helped us. ML: And what did you come to do in Chicago? What was your first job here? JL: When we arrived here in Chicago, the first thing we did—right away—was to request a social security [number] because without it we couldn’t work. But in that time, in [19]68, you only had to fill out a form containing your information—your age, your parents[’ names], and that’s it. They gave you your social security [number] right there in the office. In that way, in that time, well, that problem didn’t exist. Then, well, like everyone, you want to earn money fast—a lot [of money]. So my uncle found us a contract in construction. That’s where I started to work and I got my brother a job there and we worked in Wisconsin, Milwaukee, in Springfield, [and] Joliet (??). We were working in the government site but it wasn’t so difficult anymore for me because what I knew about driving machinery helped me earn more money and have a more secure job . . . since I also knew a little of, well, of mechanics of the machinery and I also already knew a little English. ML: Where did you learn English? JL: (laughs) That was hard—to learn English. When I stayed in Texas—to work in the winter in Texas—I worked with the mechanics who were morenos. They didn’t even speak a word of Spanish and there were times that they told me, “Give me the pliers,” and I would give them the screwdriver. Well with that same screwdriver they struck me the hardest they could in the back and they reminded me of my mom then. ML: Was that when you were a bracero in Texas? JL: Yeah, that was when I was a bracero. So then I was there for like two months, struggling a lot and one day a moreno tells me . . . ML: The morenos were the mechanics? JL: Yes. So the moreno—of the mechanics—tells me that he wants me to go to his house. And he was kind to me because he took me [to his house] so that his wife—she was Mexican—so that his wife could give me English classes. So she told me, “My husband says that if you want to learn English I should teach you and he’ll bring you every afternoon so that you can study English.” And then I tell her, “Yeah, well I appreciate it.” I tell her, “Yes, of course.” I tell her, “well, thank you for your kindness.” And then she tells me, “Well I am going to lend you this notebook so that this afternoon won’t go to waste.” And she started to write the alphabet—a, b, c, and all of that. And I took it with me and at night I studied. I told her, “And tomorrow, what will I get out of this? They’re going to keep throwing the hammer at me, throwing the wrenches at my back, because I don’t feel like this helps me in my job.” Well, that night I hardly slept. I got the notebook and on the other side [of the page] where the alphabet was written I made a list of all of the, of all of the tools that we used as mechanics: the hammer, I put “martillo”; then I put pliers, screwdriver, wrenches, then the size of the wrenches and the caliber, the material, and I put all of the tools on a list. I already knew what tools were needed and used as a mechanic. So the next day I go to her and I say, “hey, I’m sorry but the system you’re using to teach me English will take a lifetime [to learn so that] I can speak English. I want to speak English now because I need it.” She says, “And how do you want to learn?” I tell her, “my way.” “How?” [she asks]. “Like this. How I have this [list]. I’m going to learn it like that,” [I said]. And she starts to look [at it] and she says, “I doubt it.” I say, “Well I don’t doubt it because I am going to learn it.” Then I say, “just do me a favor. How do you say hammer in English? How do you explain it?” She says, “hammer [in English].” [I ask,] “what are the pliers called?” “Pliers [in English],” [she says]. “What is the screwdriver called?” [I ask]. “Screwdriver [in English],” [she says]. So I wrote in Spanish, but however I thought it was spelled in English and that was how I learned a bit of English. ML: For you what does the word “bracero” mean? JL: Well, the term “bracero” . . . well, for me it is a word of distinction. For me it is a word full of pride. It is a word that I want to live on in history. ML: Do you feel like the Bracero Program impacted your town in México? JL: I feel like the Bracero Program impacted all Mexicans—that in some way or another they were touched; they were favored; they were noticed; they were motivated to direct themselves to this nation, because if there would have never been braceros, there wouldn’t be the millions of Mexicans in the United States that there actually are today . . . whether we are legal or illegal. But I am sure that if it wasn’t for the Bracero Program we Mexicans wouldn’t be in the United States in the way we are today. ML: And how did your town change because of the Program? JL: Well because of the braceros, my town . . . I was the first one to be contracted from my town as a bracero. Afterwards there began to be more [who became braceros]. When I . . . when the Bracero Program ended there were about twelve braceros from my town. So that was a big difference between zero braceros, one bracero, and twelve braceros. ML: And what did your sisters and your mom think about so many braceros going [to the United States]? JL: Well, I think that what my mom and my sisters thought . . . it was very difficult for them to think or soak up [understand] the problems that we braceros had. That is hard, very hard because even as far as today I have not had the willingness to say to my mother: “This is what I suffered when I was a bracero.” And I am not going to do it. Today I am doing it because I feel a duty as a Mexican, as a bracero, that if this is a story that starts or if this is a story that goes on the road, I am part [a link] of the chain of this story. ML: How do you feel that they call you a bracero? JL: I feel proud. I feel proud to have been a bracero because I started at the bottom. I suffered in the beginning. Life threw me blows at the beginning. I started with humiliations. But today I also feel fortunate because I have a family; I live in the United States; God gave me children who had opportunities that I didn’t have; but the important thing is that I feel like they [the opportunities] are mine. ML: Did having been a bracero change your life in any way? JL: Yes, it changed my life a lot because for me life has been [like] school. Every day is different. Everyday is new. We all have economic problems, health [problems], disagreements about everything, but there is always an alternative—how to confront it, how to resolve it, and I discovered this on the path of the braceros. ML: I have just finished the interview, but would you like to share anything more or say anything more before I turn off the tape? JL: Well, what I want to say is to all those who are collaborating on this bracero history, that they should not feel embarrassed. They should not feel like second-class citizens among any society, among any race or nation. They should only feel like humans with their own, with their roots, with their traditions that their parents have instilled in them. Because it makes me sad to hear news of drug addiction, of hooliganism, of ruin, but it makes me proud and satisfied [to hear] of Hispanics who persevere, who better themselves, who try to be the star which many Hispanics should follow, because we are a large nation, strong, capable. And in the future the reality shines that the United States will pay attention to us—not like numbers, rather like people with rights, with respect, with dignity, so that our race and our children can feel proud to be Hispanic and to be people who have come [from], come from braceros. ML: Thank you, uncle. End of interview. Original Format If the image is of an object, state the type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data Mini Disc Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 1:46:25 Bit Rate/Frequency Rate at which bits are transferred (i.e. 96 kbit/s would be FM quality audio) 24 bit 96 k File Name Identifier The identifier for the sound file. Loza_CHIC014 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Juan Loza Subject The topic of the resource Bracero Description An account of the resource Biographical Synopsis of Interviewee: Juan Loza was born on October 11, 1939, in Manuel Doblado, Guanajuato, México; he was the eldest of his twelve siblings; in 1960, he joined the bracero program, and he worked in Arkansas, California, Michigan, and Texas; he picked beets, celery, corn, cucumbers, onions, peanuts, peppers, rice, soybeans, and tomatoes; he returned to México after the program, but he later decided to migrate to Chicago, Illinois, as an undocumented worker in 1968. Summary of Interview: Mr. Loza recalls his childhood in Manuel Doblado, Guanajuato, México; he explains that he had little formal schooling, and he began working at age eight; additionally, he states that he heard of the bracero program from his godfather, and he approached the mayor of his town to be placed on the bracero list; he recounts his experiences while waiting to be contracted in Monterrey, Nuevo León, México, and how he had to work in order to have a place to stay while waiting for his name to be called; moreover, he relates what the process was like, the rough treatment he received from doctors, the way exams were conducted, and how he was dusted during the disinfection process; he worked as a bracero from 1960 to 1964, picking beets, celery, corn, cucumbers, onions, peanuts, peppers, rice, soybeans, and tomatoes in Arkansas, California, Michigan, and Texas; he talks about what his life was like as a bracero, the living quarters he had, the food he ate, and the way he was treated; furthermore, he narrates how he was denied service at a restaurant in Texas, and he was consequently beaten by a guard; he also recalls another incident in Texas when a group of morenos he worked with attempted to break into his living quarters; in addition, he states that he was treated badly by Mexican-American foremen; in 1968, he returned to the United States as an undocumented worker due to poverty; he concludes by expressing that he is proud to have been a bracero, which ultimately helped him change his life. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Loza, Mireya Loza, Juan Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2005-08-31 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Cristóbal Borges Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Institute of Oral History, The University of Texas at El Paso Language A language of the resource spa Contribution Form The set of elements containing metadata from the Contribution form. Online Submission Indicates whether or not this Item has been contributed from a front-end contribution form. No Additional Item Metadata The additional item metadata element set, consisting of all item elements created by an administrator and not assigned to an item type, and item elements created by plugins and not assigned to an item type or other element set. Additionally, the metadata element set that, in addition to the Dublin Core element set, was included in the `items` table in previous versions of Omeka. These elements are common to all Omeka items. title (Spanish) Spanish version of the 'title' Dublin Core field. Juan Loza creator (Spanish) Spanish version of the 'creator' Dublin Core field. Loza, Mireya contributor (Spanish) Spanish version of the 'contributor' Dublin Core field. Cristóbal A. Borges Rights Holder Institute of Oral History, The University of Texas at El Paso https://braceroarchive.org/files/original/guzman_chic013_8a228393c5.mp3 ccdd6c6accabf98342ba08c7aba8e580 Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview. Villafranca, Nancy Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed. Guzmán, Luis Location The location of the interview. Chicago, Illinois Original Format If the image is of an object, state the type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data Mini Disc Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 29:24 Bit Rate/Frequency Rate at which bits are transferred (i.e. 96 kbit/s would be FM quality audio) 24 bit 96 k Time Summary A summary of an interview given for different time stamps throughout the interview [Mins 0:00-1:30; Introduction to Early Life] Luis was born on August 25, 1939 on a ranch in a town called El Pueblo de Santa Cruz in the municipality of Santa Maria del Oro, Nayarit, Mexico. He came from a completely rural background. [Mins 1:31-3:05; Early Life] Luis had eight siblings. Today some are living in Mexico and others in the United States. He was a student until secondary school where he learned to read and write. Luis helped around the ranch while attending school, planting corn, tomatoes, beans, onion, and peppers. He also worked to help irrigate the farm. [Mins 3:06-4:13; Work Experience Overview] Luis considers the work he did with his father to be the first work experience he had. His first paid job was when he came to the United States. He explains that the bracero program was very well-known in Mexico, and briefly explains how one became a bracero. Braceros were given initial work contracts of about 45 days, and U.S. employers could decide to extend the contract if he/she like the work the bracero was doing. [Mins 4:14-5:50; Bracero Experience Overview] Luis says that he and the other workers were always referred to as “braceros.” He remained unmarried from the time of his first contract in 1956 until 1959, and was married in 1960. Luis continued to work in 1961 and 1962 was the last year he worked in the United States. He explains how one became eligible for the bracero program. His first contract was through Chihuahua, Chihuahua, Mexico, and later he was contracted through Monterrey, Nuevo Leon, Mexico. Once contracted, braceros took a train across the U.S.-Mexico border. [Mins 5:51-9:14; Processing] Workers brought necessary documentation to the processing centers. There, they were given a series of examinations and were sent back if they were not in good health. The job requirements and details were explained to the braceros before the signing of contracts. Individual bosses handled accommodations differently. When he was first processed in Chihuahua, Chihuahua, Mexico, he crossed the U.S.-Mexican border through the Paso Texas. From Monterrey, Nuevo Leon, Mexico, he crossed through the Paso de Alguila. He recalls that one suffered at the processing centers. Some had to sleep outside because they could not afford the dormitories. People would stay at the processing centers from one to 15 days, and they were responsible for feeding themselves. [Mins 9:15-10:27; Entering the U.S.] When braceros crossed the U.S.-Mexico border, they were well-received. The language barrier was a challenge but some employers knew a little Spanish. Braceros then waited at association centers to be picked up by their employers. Associations were usually not in cities but were camps unto themselves. [Mins 10:28-12:29; Bracero Employment] Luis’ first job was picking cotton, which he chose and really enjoyed because it allowed one to work at his own pace and make as much money as his abilities would allow. Luis’ boss would take him to buy his own food on the weekends. He worked officially as a bracero for about six years, including time between contracts. His first job was in Pecos, Texas, then he worked near McAllen, Texas, then in Mexico, then in Amarillo, Texas, then in New Mexico, again in Amarillo, Texas, and his final contract was in Fort Morgan, Colorado. [Mins 12:30-14:44; Work Life] In Colorado, Luis harvested beets. Contracts ended with the end of the harvest. Luis spent the most time in Pecos, Texas, where he worked on small farms which employed 30 to 40 braceros at a time. The large barracks and bunk-bed sleeping arrangements always kept the braceros together, so they became friends. Luis’ farms never employed undocumented workers. He had a decent relationship with his bosses, and he neither experienced nor witnessed workers being treated poorly. He says no Mexican authorities ever came to his camps. [Mins 14:45-15:59; Family] The telephone at Luis’ ranch was too expensive to use so he and his family communicated through letters every eight to fifteen days. Luis speaks about how money was his reason for becoming a bracero. [Mins 16:00-19:14; Daily Life] Luis usually worked five days a week for about eight hours a day. He explains that cotton picking did not necessitate a set schedule but work usually began around six or seven in the morning. At his camp, four or five people would share a stove to cook Mexican food with. His furnished barracks also had bathrooms and electricity. In the large barracks, one could always hear singing at night. Everyone went to sleep at around eight or nine at night. Clothes were washed by hand. Employers took the braceros to stores to buy personal items. [Mins 19:15-21:55; Wages and Health] Braceros were paid $25 to $30, and sometimes $40, each week in cash. Sometimes braceros were paid on the spot after weighing-in the cotton they picked. Of his wages, Luis kept only what he needed to live and sent the rest home to Mexico. The bosses would mail letters and cash for the braceros. Luis was not able to save a lot of money for himself. Braceros were usually paid the same hourly wages. There was never a time he was not paid the right amount or had money withheld by his employer, nor did Luis ever need to see a doctor. Other people experienced such ailments as the flu or appendicitis. Managers were always around to help and employers would take people to the doctor when necessary. [Mins 21:56-23:00; Discrimination] Luis says he did not encounter discrimination but that the language barrier made things very difficult. He remembers others feeling that they were discriminated against but he did not experience it first-hand. He illustrates this by saying that if the weight of the cotton was ever recorded incorrectly or weighed incorrectly, the case would be investigated and everything would be fixed. [Mins 23:01-25:30; Leisure and Recreation] Luis says there really wasn’t ever substantial time to relax because one always wanted to keep picking more cotton and keep making more money. Sometimes on Saturdays, when there was no work, braceros would go to the movies. They listened to the radio which had some Spanish stations. Nearby towns had churches to which the braceros would walk in groups. The townspeople usually did not know any Spanish. Luis does not think they had off for Holy Week or Christmas. Braceros could leave their jobs before their contracts were over for emergencies only. His longest contract was three months long. [Mins 25:31-26:40; Subsequent Contracts] When a contract was up, the employers would provide the means and method of transportation back to the Mexico-U.S. border. Luis had generally long breaks at home between contracts. [Mins 26:41-27:37; Migrating to the U.S. Permanently] After the bracero program, many others migrated to Chicago, Illinois to live. Luis first came alone, and eventually brought his wife in the mid-1970s. He worked in restaurants and with a railroad company. [Mins 27:38-End; Final Thoughts] To Luis, “bracero” means “worker.” He indicates that it was a fine experience. It changed his life in that it paved the way for him to make his permanent move to the United States. File Name Identifier The identifier for the sound file. Guzman_CHIC013 subject (Spanish) Bracero Additional Item Metadata The additional item metadata element set, consisting of all item elements created by an administrator and not assigned to an item type, and item elements created by plugins and not assigned to an item type or other element set. Additionally, the metadata element set that, in addition to the Dublin Core element set, was included in the `items` table in previous versions of Omeka. These elements are common to all Omeka items. title (Spanish) Spanish version of the 'title' Dublin Core field. Luis Guzmán creator (Spanish) Spanish version of the 'creator' Dublin Core field. Villafranca, Nancy contributor (Spanish) Spanish version of the 'contributor' Dublin Core field. Cristóbal A. Borges Rights Holder Institute of Oral History, The University of Texas at El Paso Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Cristóbal Borges Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Villafranca, Nancy Guzmán, Luis Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2005-08-31 Description An account of the resource Biographical Synopsis of Interviewee: Mr. Luis Guzmán was born August 25, 1939, in Santa María del Oro, Durango, México; he and his nine siblings grew up on a ranch with their parents, and he helped his father work in the fields while going to school; in 1956, he enlisted in the bracero program; as a bracero, he worked in Colorado, New Mexico, and Texas, picking beets and cotton; he continued working on and off with the program until 1962; later, in 1969, he immigrated to the United States, and he brought the rest of his family with him in 1976. Summary of Interview: Mr. Guzmán briefly discusses his family, childhood, and adolescence; in 1956, he enlisted in the bracero program at a contracting center in Chihuahua, Chihuahua, México, and he later went through a center in Monterrey, Nuevo León, México; as part of the hiring process, he had to have a letter of recommendation from a judge or authority stating that he was a good worker; in addition, he was physically examined, and he had to give blood samples as well; as a bracero, he worked in Colorado, New Mexico, and Texas, picking beets and cotton; he goes on to describe the various worksites, a typical work day, housing, living amenities, provisions, payment, and recreational activities; overall, he was treated well by his employers; he spent his longest time working in Pecos, Texas, on a small farm with about thirty to forty workers; although he was never in need of medical treatment, he knew of others who were taken to see a doctor by the foreman; moreover, he states that he kept in contact with his family via letters, and he sent money home every eight to fifteen days; he continued working on and off with the program until 1962; later, in 1969, he immigrated to the United States, and he ultimately brought the rest of his family with him in 1976; his memories of the program are positive, and he is proud of having worked as a bracero; he concludes by commenting that his experiences ultimately changed his life, because they are what made him decide to permanently live in the United States. Language A language of the resource spa Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Institute of Oral History, The University of Texas at El Paso Subject The topic of the resource Bracero Title A name given to the resource Luis Guzmán https://braceroarchive.org/files/original/gonzalez_diaz_chic012_5a06735b53.mp3 9af44ad73cccc91f2c16e5cc2daa9262 Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview. Mieri, Magdalena Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed. González Díaz, Saturnino Location The location of the interview. Chicago, Illinois Original Format If the image is of an object, state the type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data Mini Disc Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 49:42 Bit Rate/Frequency Rate at which bits are transferred (i.e. 96 kbit/s would be FM quality audio) 24 bit 96 k File Name Identifier The identifier for the sound file. Gonzalez_Diaz_CHIC012 subject (Spanish) Bracero Additional Item Metadata The additional item metadata element set, consisting of all item elements created by an administrator and not assigned to an item type, and item elements created by plugins and not assigned to an item type or other element set. Additionally, the metadata element set that, in addition to the Dublin Core element set, was included in the `items` table in previous versions of Omeka. These elements are common to all Omeka items. title (Spanish) Spanish version of the 'title' Dublin Core field. Saturnino González Díaz creator (Spanish) Spanish version of the 'creator' Dublin Core field. Mieri, Magdalena contributor (Spanish) Spanish version of the 'contributor' Dublin Core field. Cristóbal A. Borges Rights Holder Institute of Oral History, The University of Texas at El Paso Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Cristóbal Borges Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Mieri, Magdalena González Díaz, Saturnino Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2005-08-31 Description An account of the resource Biographical Synopsis of Interviewee: Saturnino González was born on November 25, 1943, in Tequisquiapan, Querétaro, México; he was raised with his eleven siblings; his father was an artisan, and although he learned the trade, he did not like it; he was formally educated through the sixth grade, and he ultimately obtained a secure job with the federal electricity commission in México; when he was nineteen, he enlisted in the bracero program where he worked throughout California picking lemons and strawberries; in 1972, he was able to emigrate to the United States, and he was ultimately able to bring the rest of his family with him. Summary of Interview: Mr. González briefly recalls his family and childhood; he remembers hearing stories about his dad working in the United States, which made him want to do the same; as a young man he acquired a secure job with the federal electricity commission in México, mounting high tension cables; when he was nineteen he heard about a call for braceros, and he decided to quit his job for the chance to work in the United States; he traveled to the processing center in Empalme, Sonora, México, but he ended up being in debt before ever obtaining a contract; moreover, he details the harsh conditions he and other men endured while waiting there; in addition, he talks about how painful the physical exams were and how rudely they were conducted; as a bracero he worked throughout California picking lemons and strawberries; he goes on to describe the various worksites, duties, contract renewals, living conditions, provisions, payment, treatment, remittances, and recreational activities; oftentimes he served as a kind of leader for the other men, because he looked out for them and made sure no one took advantage of them; while working in Aromas, California, the crop was ruined by rain, but instead of returning to México, he deserted and sought work elsewhere; he initially went to Salinas, California, but he eventually made his way to Chicago, Illinois, where he found more permanent work; later, in 1972, he was able to legally emigrate to the United States, and he eventually brought the rest of his family with him. Language A language of the resource spa Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Institute of Oral History, The University of Texas at El Paso Subject The topic of the resource Bracero Title A name given to the resource Saturnino González Díaz https://braceroarchive.org/files/original/felix_mota_chic011_4dc6229a24.mp3 e13c983a1719a6519a5903f51181a602 Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview. Fernández, Lilia Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed. Félix Mota, María Location The location of the interview. Chicago, Illinois Original Format If the image is of an object, state the type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data Mini Disc Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 1:02:11 Bit Rate/Frequency Rate at which bits are transferred (i.e. 96 kbit/s would be FM quality audio) 24 bit 96 k Time Summary A summary of an interview given for different time stamps throughout the interview [Mins 0:16-3: 06 Introduction and Early Life] Maria was born in Palapa, Guerrero in 10-20-1942. Her father, Leopoldo Mota Serrano, was a bracero born in Acatapetlaguaya, Guerrero on 11-15-1918. He started coming to the United States as a bracero in the 1950s. Maria’s parents had one other daughter. When Maria’s father left the sisters were very hurt. Although they knew that he had gone to the Untied States they did not know his exact location. Initially, he sent money but stopped doing so after he separated from Maria’s mother. Maria describes the abject poverty in which she lived after her father’s departure but insists that he suffered too. [Mins 3:06-5:23 Sister’s life after parents’ divorce] After he went to the US Maria’s father moved to Tapachula where he married another woman. He visited Maria’s family for a last time in 1957 and took her sister, who was only 14 or 15 at the time, away because he thought she was becoming sexually disreputable. The sister was sent to live near Acapulco with the new wife’s brothers who were old and single. One of these men impregnated her and she was then thrown out of the home. This was extremely painful. [Mins 5:23-10:36 Current affairs relating to Bracero’s compensation money] Maria talks about the importance of oral history type projects so that people remember braceros. She insists that braceros should be paid the money that was robbed from them. Unfortunately, she argues, that money was taken by people who are no longer in power. Maria would like to help her father financially but cannot find work even though she is willing to work very hard, because she is old. She now lives in Chicago. [Mins 10:36-14:37 Grandfather’s death and father’s early life] Maria’s father was an orphan. Her grandfather was a general brigadier who was killed in the 1910 war [Mexican Revolution]. Before dying her grandfather had asked General Castrejon to help his son. Yet, nobody took Maria’s father to see Castrejon so that he could help him. Once her father managed to reach Castrejon, the latter gave him work. However, Castrejon’s business soon closed down and Maria’s father received only 100,000 pesos. [Mins 14:37-17:15 Maria’s education and her Father’s early work] Maria’s mother paid for her to study. She finished primary school when she was 18. Her father worked with Castrejon who died suddenly (crashed by a tree) and left no testament. Thus, very little money was given to her father who had worked for years with Castrejon looking after his estate. He used to took care of Castrejon’s pool and grew avocados and cacao. When Castrejano died his son in law gave Maria’s father a little money to buy a small terrain. [Mins 17:15-18:23 Parent’s Marriage and life] Maria’s parents married around 1940-41 and lived in Palapa. Guerrero. Her father worked growing various things including tobacco and watermelon. He then came to United States in 1949-50. Maria was around nine years old. [Mins 18:23-20:16 Life of Maria’s mother] Maria’s mother, Analia Aguilar Baena, was born in El Trapichal, Guerrero. Before meeting Maria’s father she moved to Palapa with her first husband. When her first husband died she married Maria’s father. [Mins 20:16- 21:02 Family life] Maria’s sister, Maria de Jesus Mota, was born in 1945. In 1950 Maria’s parents separated. [Mins 21:02- 22:12 Father’s marriage and sister’s life] The second or third time her father came back from the United States he moved to El Carmen, Chiapas in Tapachula and took Maria’s sister away. Her sister no longer thinks of herself as being from Guerrero. [Mins 22:12-23:27 Maria’s memories of her father’s departure as a bracero] Maria remembers when her father first left with images of him going away in “yellow arrows.” When her father left she and her sister missed him and asked their mother to take them with him. There was great pain involved in his departure which occurred because of the family’s poverty. [Mins 23:27-25:9 Father’s condition and results of the bracero program in the present] She describes that her father is currently losing his memory and hearing. She has heard that in Mexico they are going to give visas to braceros’ children and she wants her sister to get one. She has also heard that the government was also going to give them some money back. [Mins 25:9-25:30 Family’s immigration status] The first time her father came it was under the bracero program. He never came as a “mojado” [“wetback”]. She came without proper documentation in 1977 but managed to regularize her papers in 1986. [Mins 25:30-27:19 Father’s life as a bracero and family’s knowledge of him] When her father came to the United States he sometimes sent letters back telling them in what city he was located, but never told them the exact address. As a bracero her father grew beets, grapes, oranges, amongst other things. Maria discusses a document that shows that her father was in Montana and Texas in 1956, in Michigan in 1957 and Denver in 1958. This was a document that he made in front of her from his memories. [Mins 27:19-30:25 Experiences after Maria’s sister is taken away from her mother’s house] When Maria’s parents separated her mother washed and ironed clothes for a living and then sold food. Maria was about 14. Maria finished school when she was 18 after they moved to Acapetlaguaya. They then moved to Iguala, Guerrero. Maria’s father took her sister away. The father’s new wife began to tell Maria’s sister that she was her real mother and did would not allow Maria or their mother to see Maria’s sister. The family thus disintegrated. Their half brother, Trinidad Baena, went to El Carmen, Chiapas to see what he could do for their sister and came back with news that she was treated poorly. [Mins 30:25-32:14 Problems that arose because they were single women] Maria and her mother could not visit her sister because her mother got ill taking busses and didn’t dare to ride on a donkey as a single woman or with Maria. In fact, they were often scared as single women. They moved a lot and every time they heard noises while moving they hid because Maria’s mother was scared of getting sexually harassed and of having someone steal Maria away. [Mins 32:14-35:08 Life in Iguala] Maria’s mother never remarried and lived in Iguala with Maria, who got married the year of her graduation in 1958. She had ten children in total. [Mins 35:08-37:19 Maria’s migration to the US] When Maria came to the United States her mother stayed with her kids. She came with six other women. The other women were going to Chicago but Maria didn’t have enough money to go with them and was going to stay in LA. However, the other women lent her enough money to get all the way up to Chicago. Many of the other women had their parents, husbands or uncles here but Maria didn’t. [Mins 37:19-38:09 Maria’s work in the US] Once in the United States Maria worked in various different factories including ones that produced textiles and videocassettes. However, in 1984 she lost her job and found it hard to find another one. The year in which the interview took place she had another factory job but quit it because she spent her time fighting to get the compensation from the Bracero program. [Mins 38.09-40:16 Maria’s migration and family life] When Maria came to the United States her kids were small (the youngest one was six years old). In 1979 she went back for them. She also returned to Mexico in 1981 because her mother had a car accident. She left the US and came back without papers twice. Then, 1986 Maria managed to fix her immigration status and to get most of her kids to the US. Maria’s mother didn’t want to be responsible for her grandchildren anymore. [Mins 40:16-42:00 Maria’s life in the US] in the United States Maria got involved with a man, and had two daughters with him (both US citizens) but he has since left her. The first one was born a year after she arrived and the second one in 1984. Maria now has to live with her daughters, which finds very hard. [Mins 42:00-44:21 Father sends money until parent’s separation] When Maria’s father first came as a bracero he sent money and letters to Miguel Mojica (she doesn’t explain who he is). He also sent hats and towels. However, he then remade his life and stopped sending things. The physical distance between Maria’s parents contributed their separation. This, Maria asserts, is common amongst people who are separated, this type of thing happens to everyone. [Mins 44:21-46:20 Raising her kids] It was hard to raise kids by herself. Her daughters, despite finding a man—which is “the law of life”—did not really fall into “vices.” [Mins 46:20-47:49 Maria’s memory of her father’s departure] Her father sent letters, money, towels and a hat. She sometimes heard her mother saying that she was going to see Miguel Mojica—to whom her father sent the money. Sometimes her mother had to pick the money in a different town. This is Maria’s main memory. She also remembers her parents talking about the lack of support from Castrejon (see minutes 10:36-17:15). [Mins 47:49- 48:19 Complaining about her father’s lack of compensation] Maria wants to go to a state governor (probably of Guerrero) and ask him to support her father but she doesn’t dare to. [Mins 48:19-50:09 Family life in relation to father] Her father worked with Casterjon before he came as a bracero. When he came back the second time he brought a hat as a present. At this time, her parents were no longer together. In 1957 her sister was sent with the brothers of Maria’s father’s new wife. At this point Maria was already married. [Mins 50:09-52:26 Knowledge about the Bracero Program] The bracero program was announced in public. Many people from Acatapetlaguaya came as braceros. People talked everywhere about it. Rumors run about with people stating that 20 or 50 men were going as braceros to El Empalme, Sonora or to Monterrey. Rumors about the program were Maria’s source of information. She heard women talking about their husbands leaving, etc. There were thousands of people who left in busses that came from Mexico City and would take the men to Nayarit, Sonora, and Monterrey. [Mins 52:26-53:10 Joining the Program] Maria remembers that many men lied about their age saying they were 18 when they were truly 15 in order to be allowed to come to the United States. They came out of economic necessity. [Mins 53:10-01:01:17 Talks about her views on the present] She talks about the administration of President Fox. She does not blame him for what happens. Today’s young people no longer want to work hard or in the fields. Maria argues that it is important to teach Mexican children about their heritage so that they remember it and feel pride about it. Mexicans shouldn’t feel ashamed about having been poor. [Mins 01:01:17-01:02:27 How braceros ought to be remembered, present immigration and her current situation] Maria asserts that we should be proud of braceros and remember that they were treated as dogs, even though they came here to work. She argues that braceros were the best generation that came to work and help the US. The situation back then was very different from the today’s when, she argues, there is an overabundance of workers like herself who cannot find jobs. She wouldn’t be able to survive without her children’s help because she doesn’t even have access to social security services. File Name Identifier The identifier for the sound file. Felix_Mota_CHIC011 Additional Item Metadata The additional item metadata element set, consisting of all item elements created by an administrator and not assigned to an item type, and item elements created by plugins and not assigned to an item type or other element set. Additionally, the metadata element set that, in addition to the Dublin Core element set, was included in the `items` table in previous versions of Omeka. These elements are common to all Omeka items. title (Spanish) Spanish version of the 'title' Dublin Core field. María Félix Mota creator (Spanish) Spanish version of the 'creator' Dublin Core field. Fernández, Lilia contributor (Spanish) Spanish version of the 'contributor' Dublin Core field. Cristóbal A. Borges Rights Holder Institute of Oral History, The University of Texas at El Paso Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Cristóbal Borges Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Fernández, Lilia Félix Mota, María Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2005-08-31 Language A language of the resource spa Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Institute of Oral History, The University of Texas at El Paso Subject The topic of the resource Daughter of bracero Title A name given to the resource María Félix Mota https://braceroarchive.org/files/original/delgado_chic010_c21831c3cc.mp3 b59bfc488e68a784150bc4c178d71d90 Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview. Villafranca, Nancy Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed. Delgado, Vincente Location The location of the interview. Chicago, Illinois Original Format If the image is of an object, state the type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data Mini Disc Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 41:56 Bit Rate/Frequency Rate at which bits are transferred (i.e. 96 kbit/s would be FM quality audio) 24 bit 96 k File Name Identifier The identifier for the sound file. Delgado_CHIC010 subject (Spanish) Bracero Additional Item Metadata The additional item metadata element set, consisting of all item elements created by an administrator and not assigned to an item type, and item elements created by plugins and not assigned to an item type or other element set. Additionally, the metadata element set that, in addition to the Dublin Core element set, was included in the `items` table in previous versions of Omeka. These elements are common to all Omeka items. title (Spanish) Spanish version of the 'title' Dublin Core field. Vincente Delgado creator (Spanish) Spanish version of the 'creator' Dublin Core field. Villafranca, Nancy contributor (Spanish) Spanish version of the 'contributor' Dublin Core field. Cristóbal A. Borges Rights Holder Institute of Oral History, The University of Texas at El Paso Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Cristóbal Borges Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Villafranca, Nancy Delgado, Vincente Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2005-09-01 Description An account of the resource Biographical Synopsis of Interviewee: Vicente Delgado was born in a small town by the name of Cerro Gordo, between Teloloapan and Acatepec, Guerrero, México; he was raised on a ranch and had very humble beginnings; when he was eighteen, he came into the United States illegally, but shortly thereafter, he was deported to Tijuana, Baja California, México; in 1952, he enlisted in the bracero program; as a bracero he worked in Arizona, California, and Colorado, picking beets, cotton, lettuce, and tomatoes; he and his family later emigrated to the United States. Summary of Interview: Mr. Delgado briefly describes his family and humble beginnings; when he was eighteen, he came into the United States illegally, but shortly thereafter, he was deported to Tijuana, Baja California, México; in 1952, he went to Mexicali, Baja California, to enlist in the bracero program; he goes on to discuss the various contracting centers he went through in México, including the requirements, the thousands of men vying for contracts, the long waiting periods that sometimes lasted weeks or months, and the harsh conditions he endured while there, like sleeping on the floor; moreover, he mentions the coyotes that were often used to avoid delays; upon arriving in the United States he was medically examined, a process which he describes as vulgar and embarrassing; as a bracero he worked in Arizona, California, and Colorado, picking beets, cotton, lettuce, and tomatoes; he also details the different worksites, duties, living conditions, amenities, provisions, payment, treatment, relationships, remittances, and recreational activities; in addition, he explains how he asked for a transfer while working in Stockton, California; oftentimes, he would help other braceros, who could not read or write, with letters; he also talks about working in border cities and being allowed to cross into México on his days off with proper documentation; in the late sixties, he was able to come to the United States with a passport, and he later arranged for the rest of his family to emigrate as well. Language A language of the resource spa Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Institute of Oral History, The University of Texas at El Paso Subject The topic of the resource Bracero Title A name given to the resource Vincente Delgado https://braceroarchive.org/files/original/conejo_chic009_b908985000.mp3 0b6d6fecd2c5261efb862317cc410612 Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview. Sifuentes, Mario Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed. Conejo, Martín Location The location of the interview. Chicago, Illinois Original Format If the image is of an object, state the type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data Mini Disc Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 24:13 Bit Rate/Frequency Rate at which bits are transferred (i.e. 96 kbit/s would be FM quality audio) 24 bit 96 k File Name Identifier The identifier for the sound file. Conejo_CHIC009 subject (Spanish) Bracero Additional Item Metadata The additional item metadata element set, consisting of all item elements created by an administrator and not assigned to an item type, and item elements created by plugins and not assigned to an item type or other element set. Additionally, the metadata element set that, in addition to the Dublin Core element set, was included in the `items` table in previous versions of Omeka. These elements are common to all Omeka items. title (Spanish) Spanish version of the 'title' Dublin Core field. Martín Conejo creator (Spanish) Spanish version of the 'creator' Dublin Core field. Sifuentes, Mario contributor (Spanish) Spanish version of the 'contributor' Dublin Core field. Cristóbal A. Borges Rights Holder Institute of Oral History, The University of Texas at El Paso Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Cristóbal Borges Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Sifuentes, Mario Conejo, Martín Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2005-09-01 Description An account of the resource Biographical Synopsis of Interviewee: Martín Conejo is the son of Ernesto Conejo, who was a bracero during the late fifties and early sixties; Martin’s father, Ernesto, was born on a ranch, just outside of Morelia, Michoacán, México; his father died when he was young, and as the eldest of his siblings, he became the head of the family; he worked in a bicycle factory for a time before hearing about the bracero program; as a bracero, he worked in Michigan, Texas, and Wisconsin, picking apples, corn, and tomatoes. Summary of Interview: Mr. Martín Conejo is the son of Ernesto Conejo, who was a bracero during the late fifties and early sixties; Martín explains how much he admires his father for having been able to successfully work as a bracero in the United States in spite of the fact that he only had a third grade education; Ernesto was the first person from his ranch to work in the United States; he was initially contracted in Monterrey, Nuevo León, México; while there he was physically examined and asked questions about his work experience; as a bracero, he worked in Michigan, Texas, and Wisconsin, picking apples, corn, and tomatoes; after every contract, he would return to México; on occasions when he had to walk through the desert, he would survive on water and powder ground from garbanzo beans for three or four days; Martín goes on to describe his father’s memories of the different worksites, payment schedules, housing, living amenities, provisions, treatment, and remittances; he mentions an instance where there were problems with a foreman who would cheat the workers out of money; because Ernesto was a good cook, he would often leave work early to begin preparing meals while his fellow workers covered for him; in spite of this, he did witness tension between Mexicans even though there was plenty of work; overall, Ernesto spoke well of the bracero program; he was eventually able to arrange for his entire family to legally immigrate to the United States. Language A language of the resource spa Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Institute of Oral History, The University of Texas at El Paso Subject The topic of the resource Bracero Title A name given to the resource Martín Conejo https://braceroarchive.org/files/original/cantu_benavides_chic008_eaf8e6433a.mp3 cd2014694e96d42da8cc29fb1dd16b10 Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview. Mieri, Magdalena Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed. Cantú Benavides, Artemio Location The location of the interview. Chicago, Illinois Original Format If the image is of an object, state the type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data Mini Disc Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 37:43 Bit Rate/Frequency Rate at which bits are transferred (i.e. 96 kbit/s would be FM quality audio) 24 bit 96 k File Name Identifier The identifier for the sound file. Cantu_Benavides_CHIC008 subject (Spanish) Bracero Additional Item Metadata The additional item metadata element set, consisting of all item elements created by an administrator and not assigned to an item type, and item elements created by plugins and not assigned to an item type or other element set. Additionally, the metadata element set that, in addition to the Dublin Core element set, was included in the `items` table in previous versions of Omeka. These elements are common to all Omeka items. title (Spanish) Spanish version of the 'title' Dublin Core field. Artemio Cantú Benavides creator (Spanish) Spanish version of the 'creator' Dublin Core field. Mieri, Magdalena contributor (Spanish) Spanish version of the 'contributor' Dublin Core field. Cristóbal A. Borges Rights Holder Institute of Oral History, The University of Texas at El Paso Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Cristóbal Borges Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Mieri, Magdalena Cantú Benavides, Artemio Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2005-08-31 Description An account of the resource Biographical Synopsis of Interviewee: Artemio Cantú Benavides was born on a ranch in China, Nuevo León, México, on September 16, 1932; he was the eldest of six children; as a child, he helped his father work the land and care for the animals; he was never formally educated; when he was eleven years old, his mother died, and he and his siblings were left in the care of their paternal grandmother; in 1959, he enlisted in the bracero program; he worked primarily in Texas as a tractor driver, but he also picked cotton, tomatoes, and other vegetables; he remained with the program for a total of four years. Summary of Interview: Mr. Cantú Benavides discusses his childhood and family; in 1959, he traveled to Monterrey, Nuevo León, México, to enlist in the bracero program; he mentions that while there, people often paid for the necessary documentation and were left without any money, but they still had to wait for months to be called; from Monterrey he was taken by bus to a reception center at the border where he was discriminated against and treated poorly; moreover, he describes the delousing process where the men were treated like animals, and the medical examinations, which included collections of blood samples, that were very painful; he endured what he had to, because he needed the money; his first bracero contract was only forty days, but he was later able to prolong it for another six months; he continued to obtain contract extensions over the next four years; consequently, he returned to México every six months to a year; as a bracero, he worked primarily in Texas as a tractor driver, but he also picked cotton, tomatoes, and other vegetables; he goes on to discuss various worksites, duties, wages, work schedules, living conditions, provisions, remittances, and recreational activities; in general, he was treated well by his employers; with the money he made as a bracero, he was able to open a small grocery store; unfortunately, he started drinking too much, and he lost the store and most of his money; he comments that he was too young at the time, and he did not know how to manage his money; eventually, he was able to obtain a visa in order to stay in the United States; his overall memories of the program are positive, with the exception of the border checkpoints, where he was treated very badly. Language A language of the resource spa Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Institute of Oral History, The University of Texas at El Paso Subject The topic of the resource Bracero Title A name given to the resource Artemio Cantú Benavides https://braceroarchive.org/files/original/bustamante_chic007_29981fab2e.mp3 8f75db802171e4643b4fa3264d40e7b3 Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview. García, Myrna Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed. Bustamante, Primitivo Location The location of the interview. Chicago, Illinois Original Format If the image is of an object, state the type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data Mini Disc Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 1:02:11 Bit Rate/Frequency Rate at which bits are transferred (i.e. 96 kbit/s would be FM quality audio) 24 bit 96 k Time Summary A summary of an interview given for different time stamps throughout the interview [Mins 0:00-5:13 Background and Family Life] Primitivo was born in June 10, 1952. He has spent most of his life in the US. He comes from large family in a small town. His father used to work in the fields in the US. Primitivo remembers that his father went to California, to Texas, and to various other parts of the United States. On his return he would bring presents back for his children. Primitivo has two brothers and a sister living in the US, he also has a brother and a sister living in Mexico. Primitivo finished primary school in Mexico but hated it and quit despite his parents’ protests. He had most of his schooling opportunities in the US and now regrets not having gone to school. [Mins 5:13-9:11 Early work life] Primitivo didn’t want to work but his parents who were very harsh/strict forced him to get a job. He now thinks that his parents’ harshness wasn’t so bad because he was very lazy and would not have survived otherwise. His first job was in LA in 1970 in Kentucky Fried Chicken. He then took a job (also in LA) in the Bell Air Country Club, which paid him $1.65 per hour. He thought it was a lot of money and with little money he could buy what he needed. [Mins 9:11-10:24 Move to Chicago] In 1973 Primitivo went to Chicago and worked in restaurants. Initially, he didn’t like the city because of the snow. He had gone to Chicago only for a two-week vacation because his brother lived there. In those years it was easy to find work and he decided to stay in Chicago. His daughters were born there. [Mins 10:24-12:08 Current Family Life] His younger daughter studied, the eldest one got married instead. His younger daughter is a teacher now and Primitivo feels that all his effort was well worth it. [Mins 12:08-13:34 Studying/Working] Primitivo had opportunities to study in California and Chicago but didn’t take them. Even his supervisors at work encouraged him to study and he had time to do it, but he didn’t want to. He worked at the Club from 8am to 4pm and did not have to pay for housing. Some days he went to school but the students there just had fun and didn’t learn anything. [Mins 13:34-20:59 Reading, Writing and Work] Primitivo’s daughter sometimes wanted to quit school. It was very hard for her because she studied far away from home. Primitivo convinced her to stay in school. Her other daughter now regrets having quitted. Primitivo doesn’t know much English but knows how to fill out work applications which has proved useful; his friends have had problems with this. Primitivo believes his job is not very well paid. Thus, he regrets not having studied, especially after his father really encouraged him. However, he asserts that even though he barely knows math “they do not fool him” in money issues. [Mins 20:59-24:43 Primitivo’s father was a bracero] Long inaudible question. Primitivo never came as a bracero. Woman intervenes in conversation but not very audible. When Primitivo was approximately 16 years old his father came as a bracero and told him about conditions in the US. Thus, Primitivo was encouraged to migrate. Even though his family always had enough food thanks to his father’s work, they were still very poor. Primitivo thought that because he was younger than his father he had a better chance to come to the US. He considers himself to be unchanged from this migration except for his increased resources. [Mins 24:43 -27:31 Father’s legal status in the United States] Primitivo used to ask his father about being a bracero. His father explained that one went to the border where there was someone who hired people and somehow managed to bring them legally to the US. His father did not regularize his residency because he didn’t want to. He now comes to the USA with a visa. Primitivo does not understand why he didn’t regularize his papers or why he or his brothers didn’t try to convince him that this was a good idea, especially to get social security. He would have gotten approximately 30 years of social security benefits, but no one tried to regularize his status. [Mins 27:31- 28:53 Primitivo and the Baracero Program] Primitivo never came as a bracero; he knows that many people complain about the program now for not getting benefits. Primitivo was approximately five years old when his father came as a bracero. [Mins 28:53-32:16 Letters and Education] When Primitivo’s father went to the United States he had to ask someone to read and write the letters from and to his family. That is why he encouraged Primitivo to learn how to read and write. Primitivo’s father only knew how to sign his name. He could calculate money matters and knew the different American coins and bills; he was not fooled in money matters. [Mins 32:16-35:19 Family matters and Migrating to the US] Primitivo’s mother came to visit his father and they had a child who was born in Texas. However, they both left because Primitivo’s mother received a telegram saying that her mother was very sick. Thus, Primitivo’s brother, who was a US citizen, was raised in Mexico until the family moved back to the US, at which time his brother was 15 years old. When Primitivo’s father came back he told Primitivo stories about where he had been and related his adventures. His father went to California, Amarillo in Texas, Las Cruces in New Mexico, and Chicago. His parents communicated through letters, but it was very hard. [Mins 35:19-38:08 Father’s bracero travels] Primitivo’s father used to bring clothes and money, for him and his siblings when he came back. Primitivo’s father always worked in agriculture; he would go to the United States for three or four months and would then go back to Mexico. Primitivo considered his father’s travels to be good because he always came back happy and with presents. [Mins 38:08-40:25 Crossing the border] Primitivo doesn’t know where his father crossed the border. Although he remembers that the last time he came to the US he crossed it through Ciudad Juarez. His father came to the United States for many years; he would stay there for three or four months, and would then go back to Mexico. His travels were dictated by seasons. [Mins 40:25- 41:55] Inaudible question; the answer makes little sense. [Mins 41:55-46:37 Money] Primitivo’s father sent money using a money order. His mother then went to the mail where they had a list of the people who had received money. People in the town knew when money arrived for others and would inform them. For Primitivo, the arrival of money signified more food. When his father left they stayed in the same home—where his sister now lives. Primitivo’s mother did domestic work at home. Once his father became a bracero, Primitivo’s mother started buying more things including a bed for them to sleep in. Thus, Primitivo was happy his father left as the money he sent allowed them to buy basic things such as beds, tables, and a chair. Primitivo wished that his father stayed in the United States for longer periods of time, but he was always sent back after four or three months when the seasons were over. [Mins 46:37 -48:03 Payment] Primitivo thought that it was “his turn” to come to the United States in order to repay his father for what he had sent. He and his parents managed to survive even without schooling. [Mins 48:03-50:05 Other braceros from the town] Primitivo’s father engaged in the bracero program with some people from his same town in Mexico including: Benito Nuñez, Demecio Gonzales, and Maldemero Nuñez. These men were all drunkards, but Primitivo’s father wasn’t. [Mins 50:05- 55:30 Drinking] Primitivo did take up drinking for a while until he had a wife and daughters. The last time he saw his mother he promised her that he was going to change his life. People were surprised by Primitivo’s change. He told his wife that he was going to stop drinking for her and his daughters because he knew it wasn’t good. He used to associate drinking with being a real man, but he now longer does. He is now happy without alcohol and has grandchildren. [Mins 55:30-01:00:25 Migration] When Primitivo’s father ended his final contract he didn’t attempt to go back, even though it would have been easy to regularize his status. Primitivo had an uncle whose boss help to regularize his papers. However, Primitivo’s father didn’t try to do this and instead went back to Mexico. Primitivo’s father kept coming to the US even after 1957, when Primitivo’s brother was born in Texas. However, he then did not fight to stay in the US or to get his social security. Back in Mexico he worked in agriculture, but it rained a lot. Once, Primitivo was helping his father in the fields, but they lost all they had worked for because it didn’t rain. This experience led Primitivo to live in the US. His wife and daughters also prefer to live in the US. [01:00:25-01:02:11 Family/Money/Migration] Primitivo was proud of his father who came to the US and sent money back and wanted to follow his steps. His father saved all the money he could and sent it back. INTERVIEW CUT. File Name Identifier The identifier for the sound file. Bustamante_CHIC007 subject (Spanish) Bracero Additional Item Metadata The additional item metadata element set, consisting of all item elements created by an administrator and not assigned to an item type, and item elements created by plugins and not assigned to an item type or other element set. Additionally, the metadata element set that, in addition to the Dublin Core element set, was included in the `items` table in previous versions of Omeka. These elements are common to all Omeka items. title (Spanish) Spanish version of the 'title' Dublin Core field. Primitivo Bustamante creator (Spanish) Spanish version of the 'creator' Dublin Core field. García, Myrna contributor (Spanish) Spanish version of the 'contributor' Dublin Core field. Cristóbal A. Borges Rights Holder Institute of Oral History, The University of Texas at El Paso Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Cristóbal Borges Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource García, Myrna Bustamante, Primitivo Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2005-09-01 Description An account of the resource Biographical Synopsis of Interviewee: Primitivo Bustamante was born on June 10, 1952, in Coahuila, Mexico; he had four brothers and four sisters; his father worked as a bracero during the late fifties in California, New Mexico, and Texas; despite being encouraged by his father to attend school, he left after the sixth grade, because he didn’t like it; his father eventually returned to México where he continued working in agriculture; Primitivo immigrated to the United States in the seventies, and consequently, all his children were born there as well. Summary of Interview: Mr. Bustamante discusses his family and childhood; during the late fifties, when he was about five or six years old, his father worked as a bracero in California, New Mexico, and Texas; as a young boy, he recalls his father explaining what it meant to be a bracero; despite being encouraged by his father to attend school, he left after the sixth grade, because he didn’t like it; he goes on to describe his father as a very hard working man who never let his family go without and who constantly set a good example for him; although his father could not read or write, he always found someone to read and write letters for him; he would also send money orders home via registered mail; with the money he sent, his wife was able to buy beds, tables, chairs, and other such furnishings for their home; when he returned to México, he would bring gifts for his children and stay for about three or four months before leaving to work again; on one occasion, his wife went with him to Texas and had a child while there, but she returned to México shortly thereafter; he eventually returned to México, where he continued working in agriculture; Primitivo immigrated to the United States during he seventies, and consequently, all his children were born there as well; he concludes by describing how proud he is of his father and his legacy of hard work. Language A language of the resource spa Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Institute of Oral History, The University of Texas at El Paso Subject The topic of the resource Bracero Title A name given to the resource Primitivo Bustamante https://braceroarchive.org/files/original/barraza_chic006_c62ec50ee8.mp3 a3437d50ff54fbd26f6ea2ce14d33628 Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview. Fernández, Lilia Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed. Barraza, Francisca Location The location of the interview. Chicago, Illinois Original Format If the image is of an object, state the type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data Mini DIsc Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 19:12 Bit Rate/Frequency Rate at which bits are transferred (i.e. 96 kbit/s would be FM quality audio) 24 bit 96 k File Name Identifier The identifier for the sound file. Barraza_CHIC006 Additional Item Metadata The additional item metadata element set, consisting of all item elements created by an administrator and not assigned to an item type, and item elements created by plugins and not assigned to an item type or other element set. Additionally, the metadata element set that, in addition to the Dublin Core element set, was included in the `items` table in previous versions of Omeka. These elements are common to all Omeka items. title (Spanish) Spanish version of the 'title' Dublin Core field. Francisca Barraza creator (Spanish) Spanish version of the 'creator' Dublin Core field. Fernández, Lilia contributor (Spanish) Spanish version of the 'contributor' Dublin Core field. Cristóbal A. Borges Rights Holder Institute of Oral History, The University of Texas at El Paso Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Cristóbal Borges Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Fernández, Lilia Barraza, Francisca Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2005-08-31 Language A language of the resource spa Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Institute of Oral History, The University of Texas at El Paso Subject The topic of the resource bracero Title A name given to the resource Francisca Barraza https://braceroarchive.org/files/original/alvarez_padilla_chic005_bed088938c.mp3 4f88c1a163e7648a05819217bfa54324 Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview. Rivera, Angelica Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed. Alvarez Padilla, Arturo Location The location of the interview. Chicago, Illinois Original Format If the image is of an object, state the type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data Mini Disc Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 1:14:00 Bit Rate/Frequency Rate at which bits are transferred (i.e. 96 kbit/s would be FM quality audio) 24 bit 96 k File Name Identifier The identifier for the sound file. Alvarez_Padilla_CHIC005 Additional Item Metadata The additional item metadata element set, consisting of all item elements created by an administrator and not assigned to an item type, and item elements created by plugins and not assigned to an item type or other element set. Additionally, the metadata element set that, in addition to the Dublin Core element set, was included in the `items` table in previous versions of Omeka. These elements are common to all Omeka items. title (Spanish) Spanish version of the 'title' Dublin Core field. Arturo Alvarez Padilla creator (Spanish) Spanish version of the 'creator' Dublin Core field. Rivera, Angelica contributor (Spanish) Spanish version of the 'contributor' Dublin Core field. Cristóbal A. Borges Rights Holder Institute of Oral History, The University of Texas at El Paso Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Cristóbal Borges Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Rivera, Angelica Alvarez Padilla, Arturo Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2005-08-31 Language A language of the resource spa Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Institute of Oral History, The University of Texas at El Paso Subject The topic of the resource bracero Title A name given to the resource Arturo Alvarez Padilla https://braceroarchive.org/files/original/almaraz_valdivia_chic004_1e5013d141.mp3 fd2cb76ecc51a8984df6b56f784c3926 Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview. Morales, Argelia Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed. Almaraz Valdivia, Roberto Location The location of the interview. Chicago, Illinois Original Format If the image is of an object, state the type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data Mini Disc Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 29:23 Bit Rate/Frequency Rate at which bits are transferred (i.e. 96 kbit/s would be FM quality audio) 24 bit 96 k File Name Identifier The identifier for the sound file. Almaraz_Valdivia_CHIC004 subject (Spanish) Bracero Additional Item Metadata The additional item metadata element set, consisting of all item elements created by an administrator and not assigned to an item type, and item elements created by plugins and not assigned to an item type or other element set. Additionally, the metadata element set that, in addition to the Dublin Core element set, was included in the `items` table in previous versions of Omeka. These elements are common to all Omeka items. title (Spanish) Spanish version of the 'title' Dublin Core field. Roberto Almaraz Valdivia creator (Spanish) Spanish version of the 'creator' Dublin Core field. Morales, Argelia contributor (Spanish) Spanish version of the 'contributor' Dublin Core field. Cristóbal A. Borges Rights Holder Institute of Oral History, The University of Texas at El Paso Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Cristóbal Borges Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Morales, Argelia Almaraz Valdivia, Roberto Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2005-09-01 Description An account of the resource Biographical Synopsis of Interviewee: Roberto Almaraz Valdivia was born in Tabasco, Zacatecas, México, but raised in Villanueva, Zacatecas; his parents worked in agriculture, and he had four sisters and three brothers; he was formally schooled through the fourth grade; when he was roughly twelve years old, he began working in agriculture as well; in 1952, he enlisted in the bracero program; as a bracero, he worked in California, Colorado, Michigan, and Texas, picking beans, beets, cotton, cucumber, grapefruits, limes, oranges, and tomatoes; he continued working with the program until 1960. Summary of Interview: Mr. Almaraz briefly discusses his family and childhood; in 1952, he enlisted in the bracero program in Villanueva, Zacatecas, México; from there, he traveled to the contracting center in Empalme, Sonora, México; he mentions the physical examinations and delousing process he underwent as part of the contracting process; from Empalme he was taken to El Centro, California, which is where the ranchers chose the workers they wanted; while there, the workers also signed their contracts, which were initially for forty days, but they could be extended for six month periods at a time, until they had completed eighteen months of work in total; as a bracero, he worked in California, Colorado, Michigan, and Texas, picking beans, beets, cotton, cucumber, grapefruits, limes, oranges, and tomatoes; he goes on to discuss the various worksites, duties, living conditions, provisions, payment methods, and recreational activities; in addition, he describes the letters he sent home to his mother and girlfriend, whom he later married in 1957; while in Oxnard, California, he became good friends with the foreman, and he eventually worked his way up to second in command; he was later able to get permission to rent a small house with other co-workers; he continued working with the program until 1960. Language A language of the resource spa Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Institute of Oral History, The University of Texas at El Paso Subject The topic of the resource Bracero Title A name given to the resource Roberto Almaraz Valdivia https://braceroarchive.org/files/original/felix_prieto_chic003_3ca3face1a.mp3 831ff16899802b4798b711045444e6f3 Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview. Morales Haro, Claudia Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed. Félix Prieto, José Location The location of the interview. Chicago, Illinois Original Format If the image is of an object, state the type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data Mini Disc Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 2:48:34 Bit Rate/Frequency Rate at which bits are transferred (i.e. 96 kbit/s would be FM quality audio) 24 bit 96 k File Name Identifier The identifier for the sound file. Felix_Prieto_CHIC003 subject (Spanish) Bracero Additional Item Metadata The additional item metadata element set, consisting of all item elements created by an administrator and not assigned to an item type, and item elements created by plugins and not assigned to an item type or other element set. Additionally, the metadata element set that, in addition to the Dublin Core element set, was included in the `items` table in previous versions of Omeka. These elements are common to all Omeka items. title (Spanish) Spanish version of the 'title' Dublin Core field. José Félix Prieto creator (Spanish) Spanish version of the 'creator' Dublin Core field. Morales Haro, Claudia contributor (Spanish) Spanish version of the 'contributor' Dublin Core field. Cristóbal A. Borges Rights Holder Institute of Oral History, The University of Texas at El Paso Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Cristóbal Borges Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Morales Haro, Claudia Félix Prieto, José Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2003-02-24 Description An account of the resource Biographical Synopsis of Interviewee: José Félix was born on September 21, 1939, in Tepetongo, Zacatecas, México; as a child he would eagerly wait for his father to come home from working as a bracero; he knew at a young age that he also wanted to become a bracero; in 1959, he began the hiring process for the bracero program; he worked in various cities throughout California, Illinois, and Texas. Summary of Interview: Mr. Félix recalls that as a child, he would eagerly wait for his father to come home form working as a bracero; he knew at a young age that he also wanted to come to the United States to work as a bracero; when he was eighteen, he began marching in the Mexican army in order to obtain his military ID card so he could enlist as a bracero; in 1959, he went to Empalme, Sonora, México, to begin the hiring process; he describes what the center was like and how he waited twenty-one days for a contract; in addition, he explains how he was medically examined and then transported to Mexicali, Baja California; he goes on to detail the medical exams he underwent in Calexico, California, including x-rays, blood samples, and the delousing process; his first work contract took him to Stockton, California, for three months; after his contract expired he returned to México, and he later went through the contracting center in Guasave, Sinaloa, México, which took him to work in Salinas, California, picking lettuce; he later went through another contracting center in Matamoros, Taumalipas, and he worked picking cotton in Texas; when his contract expired, he again returned to México; sometime later, he was able to arrange the necessary paperwork for him to emigrate into the United States. Language A language of the resource spa Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Institute of Oral History, The University of Texas at El Paso Subject The topic of the resource Bracero Title A name given to the resource José Félix Prieto https://braceroarchive.org/files/original/ponce_de_leon_chic002_3763c94aca.mp3 06aaf8191b9e209fc11d31bf1b23731f Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview. Morales Haro, Claudia Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed. Ponce de León, Jesús Location The location of the interview. Chicago, Illinois Original Format If the image is of an object, state the type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data Mini Disc Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 1:13:28 Bit Rate/Frequency Rate at which bits are transferred (i.e. 96 kbit/s would be FM quality audio) 24 bit 96 k File Name Identifier The identifier for the sound file. Ponce_de_Leon_CHIC002 subject (Spanish) Bracero Additional Item Metadata The additional item metadata element set, consisting of all item elements created by an administrator and not assigned to an item type, and item elements created by plugins and not assigned to an item type or other element set. Additionally, the metadata element set that, in addition to the Dublin Core element set, was included in the `items` table in previous versions of Omeka. These elements are common to all Omeka items. title (Spanish) Spanish version of the 'title' Dublin Core field. Jesús Ponce de León creator (Spanish) Spanish version of the 'creator' Dublin Core field. Morales Haro, Claudia contributor (Spanish) Spanish version of the 'contributor' Dublin Core field. Cristóbal A. Borges Rights Holder Institute of Oral History, The University of Texas at El Paso Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Cristóbal Borges Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Morales Haro, Claudia Ponce de León, Jesús Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2003-02-17 Description An account of the resource Biographical Synopsis of Interviewee: Jesús Ponce was born on July 11, 1919, in Cuernavaca, Morelos, México, but he was raised in México, Distrito Federal; he was the second eldest of eight siblings; during his first year in secondary school, he had to quit in order to work; when the factory where he worked closed, he decided to enlist in the bracero program; in 1944, he became a bracero, and he worked on the railroads in Chicago, Illinois; two years later, in 1946, he emigrated into the United States, and he continued working on the railroads in Chicago; he worked for a total of thirty years before retiring; in 1980, he became a United States citizen. Summary of Interview: Mr. Ponce recalls his family, childhood, and adolescence; when he was fifteen, he quit school and began working at a factory; in 1944, the factory closed, and he decided to enlist in the Bracero Program; he goes on to describe the medical exams, including the delousing procedures he went through at the contracting center in México, Distrito Federal; from there he was transported by passenger train to Bensenville, Illinois, just outside of Chicago; he describes the living situation there as horrible; there were several cargo trucks without wheels on the floor, and inside of each one of them, there were about forty bunk beds, which is where they were expected to sleep and live; the only bathrooms were outside, and they had to bathe out of buckets; he later became friends with a woman who allowed him and other workers to stay in her home, rather than in the trucks, while they worked; every six months he acquired new work contracts without having to leave the country, but in 1946 he was no longer allowed to do so; after returning to México; in May of that same year, he was able to emigrate into the United States; he went on to work on the railroads for a total of thirty years before retiring; in 1980, he became a U.S. citizen. Language A language of the resource spa Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Institute of Oral History, The University of Texas at El Paso Subject The topic of the resource Bracero Title A name given to the resource Jesús Ponce de León https://braceroarchive.org/files/original/garcia_chic001_de98dbc686.mp3 7aa460d33bddbad5926741b4741f0eae Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview. Morales Haro, Claudia Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed. García, Antonio Location The location of the interview. Chicago, Illinois Original Format If the image is of an object, state the type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data Mini Disc Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 2:41:05 Bit Rate/Frequency Rate at which bits are transferred (i.e. 96 kbit/s would be FM quality audio) 24 bit 96 k File Name Identifier The identifier for the sound file. Garcia_CHIC001 subject (Spanish) Bracero Additional Item Metadata The additional item metadata element set, consisting of all item elements created by an administrator and not assigned to an item type, and item elements created by plugins and not assigned to an item type or other element set. Additionally, the metadata element set that, in addition to the Dublin Core element set, was included in the `items` table in previous versions of Omeka. These elements are common to all Omeka items. title (Spanish) Spanish version of the 'title' Dublin Core field. Antonio García creator (Spanish) Spanish version of the 'creator' Dublin Core field. Morales Haro, Claudia contributor (Spanish) Spanish version of the 'contributor' Dublin Core field. Cristóbal A. Borges Rights Holder Institute of Oral History, The University of Texas at El Paso Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Cristóbal Borges Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Morales Haro, Claudia García, Antonio Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2003-03-12 Description An account of the resource Biographical Synopsis of Interviewee: Antonio García was born on June 13, 1937, in Tepehuanes, Durango, México, but he grew up in Nuevo Ideal, Durango; he was the eldest of five siblings, two of which died when they were young; when he was five years old, his mother died, and he was raised by his father and step-mother; his father was a farmer who worked as a bracero for a short time; when Antonio was seventeen, he enlisted in the bracero program; he continued working with the program on and off until the early 1960s. Summary of Interview: Mr. García recalls his childhood and family; he went to school through the fourth grade, and he quit school at the age of thirteen in order to work; when he was seventeen, he decided to enlist in the bracero program; although he was not yet of age, he arranged for his military ID card to state that he was eighteen years old in order to begin the hiring process; he goes on to describe what the contracting center in Durango, Durango, México was like; his first contract took him to work in the cotton fields of Texas; he describes what the living and working conditions were like while he was there; about a week after being there, he became very ill, and he was unable to work for over two weeks; he believes it was the food that made him so sick; although he was taken to the doctor and given medication, it did not help, and he eventually returned to México; after spending several months in México, he decided he wanted to try working as a bracero again; he describes the contracting centers he went through in Chihuahua, Chihuahua, and Empalme, Sonora, México, as well as the various places he worked in throughout California, Colorado, New Mexico, and Texas. Language A language of the resource spa Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Institute of Oral History, The University of Texas at El Paso Subject The topic of the resource Bracero Title A name given to the resource Antonio García https://braceroarchive.org/files/original/gutierrez_salc013_d07263eb87.mp3 51ca95e57d03fdace495f468a56b6d1d Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview. Velasquez, Steve Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed. Gutiérrez McQuinn, Sally Location The location of the interview. Salinas, California Original Format If the image is of an object, state the type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data Mini Disc Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 45:00 Bit Rate/Frequency Rate at which bits are transferred (i.e. 96 kbit/s would be FM quality audio) 24 bit 96 k File Name Identifier The identifier for the sound file. Gutierrez_SALC013 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Sally Gutiérrez McQuinn Subject The topic of the resource Bookkeeper Description An account of the resource Biographical Synopsis of Interviewee: Sally Gutierrez McQuinn was born in México, and her parents came to the United States in 1920, when she was only a few months old; she was raised in Gilroy, California; in 1941, she was married; shortly thereafter, she began working as a bookkeeper, which put her in frequent contact with braceros; she later became the first certified interpreter in Salinas, California, which also allowed her to interact with braceros on a regular basis. Summary of Interview: Ms. Gutierrez briefly describes her childhood and family; in the early 1940s she was hired as a bookkeeper for an operational office in Gilroy, California; she was in charge of payroll for the braceros, and she saw firsthand that 10 percent was discounted from their salary; it was her understanding that there was an agreement between the United States and México that the money would be mailed to México so that the braceros would have it available to them when they returned; bracero complaints went through her, because she was the only one in the office; she recalls one instance when a grower fed the braceros eggs, ham, biscuits, and jam, but they would not eat it, because they thought the ham was spoiled and the jam was nothing but orange peels; all they needed was someone to explain to them; in 1945, she became the first certified interpreter in Salinas, California, and worked primarily with cases involving the bracero program; she briefly talks about a tragic train accident, where she spoke with police and the men who survived; consequently, it launched a congressional investigation and was one of the biggest cases she handled; moreover, she also discusses a situation involving Southern Pacific, an incident where there was a fire on a bus, and yet another case that involved banning the use of the short hoe; in her opinion, braceros were never really appreciated, even when they were need, and once the war was over, they were treated even worse. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Gutiérrez McQuinn, Sally Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2005-07-28 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Institute of Oral History, The University of Texas at El Paso Language A language of the resource eng Contribution Form The set of elements containing metadata from the Contribution form. Online Submission Indicates whether or not this Item has been contributed from a front-end contribution form. No Additional Item Metadata The additional item metadata element set, consisting of all item elements created by an administrator and not assigned to an item type, and item elements created by plugins and not assigned to an item type or other element set. Additionally, the metadata element set that, in addition to the Dublin Core element set, was included in the `items` table in previous versions of Omeka. These elements are common to all Omeka items. title (Spanish) Spanish version of the 'title' Dublin Core field. Sally Gutiérrez McQuinn Rights Holder Institute of Oral History, The University of Texas at El Paso https://braceroarchive.org/files/original/de_young_sal008_41e07b92ea.mp3 e9ee7987d8bcd124862c73043b5c3725 Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview. Navarro, Kristine Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed. DeYoung, Fred Location The location of the interview. Salinas, California Original Format If the image is of an object, state the type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data Mini Disc Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 45:12 Bit Rate/Frequency Rate at which bits are transferred (i.e. 96 kbit/s would be FM quality audio) 24 bit 96 k File Name Identifier The identifier for the sound file. DeYoung_SALC008 Additional Item Metadata The additional item metadata element set, consisting of all item elements created by an administrator and not assigned to an item type, and item elements created by plugins and not assigned to an item type or other element set. Additionally, the metadata element set that, in addition to the Dublin Core element set, was included in the `items` table in previous versions of Omeka. These elements are common to all Omeka items. title (Spanish) Spanish version of the 'title' Dublin Core field. Fred DeYoung contributor (Spanish) Spanish version of the 'contributor' Dublin Core field. Cristóbal A. Borges Rights Holder Institute of Oral History, The University of Texas at El Paso Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Cristóbal Borges Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Navarro. Kristine DeYoung, Fred Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2005-07-28 Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Institute of Oral History, The University of Texas at El Paso Subject The topic of the resource Worked in the fields with braceros Title A name given to the resource Fred DeYoung